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Message: <blockquote data-quote="doctorbadwolf" data-source="post: 7914959" data-attributes="member: 6704184">So, I don’t want to keep going round and round, we obviously both play 5e and feel very differently about the classes therein, and that’s fine.but to me, to use cars again, you’re basically saying that because the 61 Mercury Comet and the 62 Chevy Impala are both sedans, they’re literally the same thing with a different logo and name. And they...just aren’t. But even that doesn’t quite get at how different they are.while, again, some spells or cantrips are very similar, the fact that Eldritch blast and vicious mockery are both cantrips is their only meaningful similarity. Beyond that, they’re exactly as similar as either one is to shooting a bow.I just...try this out. Remove cantrips from the cleric. Instead, they have a class feature called Divine Beacon that they gain at level 1.As an action, you can raise your holy symbol and speak words of prayer or quote sacred text. When you do, you choose to do one of the following;Illuminate. Light shines forth from your holy symbol. [describe radius of light, etc]Rebuke. All creatures of your choice, and any undead or fiends, within 5ft of you must succeed on a dexterity saving throw or take X radiant damage. Also if they fail, they must move 10ft away from you as a reaction. [a mini turn feature]Envelope. One creature who can see and hear you within 100ft must make a constitution saving throw or become the source of your divine beacon for a time. If they fail, they shed bright light in a 20ft radius until the start of your next turn, and take X radiant damage.Now, at level 5, each of these is improved. Then at 8, you get to chose between these being buffed or your weapon attacks being buffed. At some later level, it all gets buffed. Let’s say it’s not the same levels as wizard cantrip buffsIs that more different, for you, than what is currently the case?for me, it’s exactly the same difference in the moment when I use the abilities in game, so it’s no more or less different. It seems like for others, possibly including you, the fact that it looks more different on the character sheet makes it meaningfully more different.if that’s about right, I’ll be perfectly satisfied that I at least understand the other side of the discussion.</blockquote>

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