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<blockquote data-quote="Little_Buddha" data-source="post: 42992" data-attributes="member: 2715">I'm just in the process of designing a second-level Human Rogue. Although I realised before I started that it was insane, I'm infatuated with the idea of a thief with the garrote as his signature weapon. I've got Song &amp; Silence, with its two pages of garrote attack rules. Herein lies the problem, though.It's an exotic weapon, so having the garrote as a signature weapon is realistically going to cost you a feat. That means you really want it to do something. Here's what you have to go through to garrote someone:* Not get hit by the AoO invoked by attacking with a garrote.* Hit the target with a modified melee touch attack.* Continuously win opposed grapple checks.Parts one and two are relatively simple. You can deny your target that AoO, or draw an AoO from him just prior to garroting him, or just brave the strike. The modified melee touch attack isn't that hard - only natural armour, full plate and gorgets grant Armour bonuses against it.But winning lots of opposed grapple checks? As a rogue?Base Attack Bonus + Strength Modifier + Size ModifierHow on earth is a rogue going to win more than a couple of these checks in a row? And just *one* failure dooms the garrote attempt! You're extremely unlikely to even START a garrote against a warrior-type of equal level. So here's my quandry:How can a single-class Rogue boost his grapple check?As far as I know, there isn't a way that doesn't involve distinctly non-Rogue elements (somehow being magically enlarged, multiclassing into warrior classes to get a decent BAB or increasing Strength magically). And if you're doing the latter two, you're far better off just attacking your victim!Any thoughts?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Little_Buddha, post: 42992, member: 2715"] I'm just in the process of designing a second-level Human Rogue. Although I realised before I started that it was insane, I'm infatuated with the idea of a thief with the garrote as his signature weapon. I've got Song & Silence, with its two pages of garrote attack rules. Herein lies the problem, though. It's an exotic weapon, so having the garrote as a signature weapon is realistically going to cost you a feat. That means you really want it to do something. Here's what you have to go through to garrote someone: * Not get hit by the AoO invoked by attacking with a garrote. * Hit the target with a modified melee touch attack. * Continuously win opposed grapple checks. Parts one and two are relatively simple. You can deny your target that AoO, or draw an AoO from him just prior to garroting him, or just brave the strike. The modified melee touch attack isn't that hard - only natural armour, full plate and gorgets grant Armour bonuses against it. But winning lots of opposed grapple checks? As a rogue? Base Attack Bonus + Strength Modifier + Size Modifier How on earth is a rogue going to win more than a couple of these checks in a row? And just *one* failure dooms the garrote attempt! You're extremely unlikely to even START a garrote against a warrior-type of equal level. So here's my quandry: How can a single-class Rogue boost his grapple check? As far as I know, there isn't a way that doesn't involve distinctly non-Rogue elements (somehow being magically [i]enlarged[/i], multiclassing into warrior classes to get a decent BAB or increasing Strength magically). And if you're doing the latter two, you're far better off just attacking your victim! Any thoughts? [/QUOTE]

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