boring combat

[hong]

Cool definately rules. It's a better challenge to work into the mix some tougher orcs, ogres, whatever, to go with the horde 'o mooks. Depends on the players, I've known some that would love an entire night of rolling and killing off hundreds of basic, 'no chance in hell of really doing any damage' orcs.

Heh. This reminds me of the Battletech session I ran once, where the players were controlling a Clan star of heavy mechs. They got swarmed by two companies of Inner Sphere lights (24 mechs) attacking in waves. At the end of the combat, everyone's mech was half-dead, but they were all surrounded by heaps and heaps of destroyed and knocked-out enemies. Excellent example of how to dish out massive property damage.

 

[Uller]

Re: Hordes and hordes

I don't have my DMG with me today, but let's just say that a goblin, at less than 1 cr, is worth no XP to a pc that kills it.

IIRC (don't have my books with me either) this is not entirely true. The table doesn't have 0 XP for low level varmints dispatched by high level PCs. It has a * and notes that monsters that are 8 CRs below the party level don't work in the table and the DM is advised to provide either no XP or ad hoc XP based on the difficulty of the encounter. I could be wrong on this, though...

If you think about it, that makes sense. Let's take an encounter with a Stone Giant (CR 8) and 100 orcs (each CR 1/2). This should be an EL 12 or 13. Of course, it probably isn't. It could be much easier or much harder...difficult to say(probably about an EL 11). One thing is clear is it is more difficult than an EL 8. So you give XP for the Giant normally and then adjust up by some percentage based on how much tougher the orcs made him. At least that's what I do.

 

[Radiating Gnome]

Again, working from memory . . .

There are two separate tables in the DMG -- one to help figure the EL of an encounter, based on the CR of the creature. And another that just gives you the XP value of a particular CR creature at a given character level.

The trick is that when you calculate experience, following the directions in the DMG, all you do is find the individual reward for a signle creature, and give that to the party for each one of those creatures they killed; the XP value is the same if they kill them one by one or in one huge battle.

Calculating the EL is a guide for creating encountered scaled to your PC's abilities, but you don't give characters experience based on the EL, but on the individual CRs of the various creatures they kill.

So, if a character is high enough level to not be rewarded for killing a lone goblin, he isn't going to be rewarded for killing a horde of them, unless the DM decides to give him a reward as an ad hoc bonus, based on the difficulty of the encounter.

-rg

 

[Nvvyn]

First of all, lemme just kinda explain a d&d session with my group.
In two days we played 2 10 hour sessions, 20 hours total. We fought a total of about 4-6 battles max. Most exp we got was from questing. I rather enjoy this approach as it makes combat more desirable, also your getting a much better role-playing exp rather than hack and slash. Don't get me wrong, I love a good battle, but its good to lean away from all out hack and slash. Thats why battles get boring. People lose interest in doing cool stuff and just kill and move on. My particular dm has very few battles in his campaign (not a bad thing), but when there are battles, they are extremeely challenging. If a battle is TOO easy, thats the #1 thing that will make it boring. Make the party HAVE TO use tactics in order to win. Make then suffer an unconsiouc player if need be. If you challenge their skills and their minds at the same time, they will have new respect for the battles to come.

 

[mmadsen]

As the Bonus Tip points out, one of the keys to a compelling encounter is mixing and matching what could have been two or more encounters. An unstoppable monster or a horde of lesser monsters is interesting. When it drives the party back into the trapped corridor, it's much more interesting.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Think of the aliens in Alien, Aliens and Alien^3. In a straight confrontation on open ground with a platoon of colonial marines, they would be toast. Sure, they're fast and tough, but they also have no ranged weapons, no smarts (except bloodlust and animal cunning), and no backup. Remember that the one time in Aliens where the xenos charged two emplaced MGs, they got slaughtered handily. In D&D terms, they're just like orcs, ogres or any other nasty but mundane monster.

Why were the aliens so terrifying? Because all the movies took place in locations that largely negated the marines' advantages. You can't call in an artillery strike if the fight is taking place underground or inside a huge complex. You can't use suppressive fire effectively if all combat takes place within ranges of 30 feet. Etc.

You can do this in D&D too, and what's even better, it's entirely natural in the game to have fights in dungeons. Instead of "orcish wave" attacks that get plowed under by fireballs, have small groups rush the PCs. Force them to expend their precious wand charges and spell slots dealing with each individual group. Then build up to the big confrontation with the mama orc.

Yes, that's true. You can do this, and it works. I've done it myself, and in fact I've made use of some of those tactics in an upcoming module.

Sorry. When people say "horde," I assume a huge charging wave of beasts. To me, a mass of critters using tactics of this sort doesn't qualify; that's why I said what I did.

Oops. That'll teach me to read into other people's meanings, won't it?

 

[LordAO]

One thing that helps is to use stunts in combat. Let your players make tumble/jump hecks to say back flip over the enemy and stab them in the back or to run up the walls and back flip over the enemy (i.e Xena). Even if they don't do things that spectacular, simply describing your action in detail makes it more cool. The DM should assign DCs and bonuses as appropriate. Also try and utilize the environment. Whenever you watch action movies they always do this. It's really fun and encourages the players to think creatively, use their skills, and utilize their environment. We usually even give exp for really cool stunts.

 

[mmadsen]

Consider heavy snow (which, IIRC, reduces movement to 1/2 or 1/4).

I remember that nemmerle brought up snow on the old thread. Depending on the depth, he had it restrict characters to 3/4 to 1/4 normal speed, with no dex adjustment to AC if it was bad enough, and running restricted to three times speed or not at all (in the case of deep snow).

I think that would be a great environment if you're using Tolkien-esque Elves. Legolas, as you might remember, bounds across the top of the snow, while the rest of the fellowship slogs through it the hard way.

By the way, by the book (DMG, p. 87), here's what snow does:

Snow: While falling, snow reduces visibility as rain (-4 penalty to ranged weapon attacks, Spot checks, and Search checks). Once on the ground, it reduces movement by half. Snow has the same effect on flames as moderate wind (see above).

 

[tburdett]

Use fear.

I agree with the previous poster who said to use fear.

My players have learned that death lurks in every shadow, behind every door, beneath every bush and sometimes in plain sight. Death knows their names and where they live. Death eagerly seeks them out.

They never take any encounters for granted, as I don't run any 'garbage' encounters. Every 'planned' encounter happens for a reason. The NPC's have a motivation for what they are doing. It isn't just a string of set-piece or random encounters. That's the quickest way to bore your players.

Other encounters are usually instigated by the PC's. Occasionally they will encounter people who they could easily defeat, but I've put that little bit of doubt into their minds. Is this guy as bad as he looks? If we push will he push back harder? Does he have friends? Are they nearby? Where is the Watch?

Fear is a POWERFUL motivator! Fear is a good thing.

There are consequences for your actions in the real world, and there are also consequences for your actions in the game world.

Running amok in the middle of a large city is bound to get you captured or killed.

Killing someone in self-defense and leaving their body to rot in an alley because you don't want to deal with the 'hassle' is not justified. You better report it to the Watch or they'll use magic to find out what happened and who was involved. Then they'll come and take you in, or take you down if you resist. Any city that supports a large enough population would HAVE to have peacekeepers up to the task.

Too many DM's take short cuts that make the world seem flat and lifeless. Inject some life into every aspect of your game and you will keep your players interest.

 

[mmadsen]

Ambushes can make "compelling" encounters -- as long as they're clever, and the players don't feel too "screwed". Anyone have the PCs crossing a rope bridge, one at a time, when the Goblins start throwing javelins? Ooh, that can force a Balance check...