Born of the Three Thunders question

[Merlion]

When you use Born of the Three Thunders, you are dazed for 1 round. Does that mean that your dazed the round you cast the effected spell, or the round after? I'm a little unclear.

 

[shilsen]

The round you cast the spell, so you are dazed until your turn comes up in the next round.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Which is to say, you spend your next action being dazed.

 

[hong]

You are dazed from the moment you finish casting the spell, to the end of your next turn. Ie, you lose one round doing nothing.

 

[boolean]

Are you sure about that?

If a monk stuns an opponent for one round, the opponent stops being stunned at the beginning of the monk's next action.

The daze effect of Born of the Three Thunders has the same duration - one round.

I agree that it doesn't seem like much of a drawback. You can't take a move action after you cast the spell, and can't cast a quickened spell afterwards. I think being dazed also means no AoO's, but I'm not sure.

 

[shilsen]

Which is to say, you spend your next action being dazed.

You are dazed from the moment you finish casting the spell, to the end of your next turn. Ie, you lose one round doing nothing.

Actually I think it would be to the beginning of your next turn, not the end, so you don't actually lose an action. That's usually the way "for 1 rd" events in the rules tend to work. As boolean mentioned above, when a monk stuns somebody for 1 rd, the target becomes un-stunned just before the monk's turn comes up on the next round. Same concept here.

 

[hong]

Actually I think it would be to the beginning of your next turn, not the end, so you don't actually lose an action. That's usually the way "for 1 rd" events in the rules tend to work. As boolean mentioned above, when a monk stuns somebody for 1 rd, the target becomes un-stunned just before the monk's turn comes up on the next round. Same concept here.

That's dumb. If the dazed condition wears off at the start of your next turn, you effectively lose nothing.

If the daze effect was to take effect the same round you use the feat, then by rights it should prevent you doing ANYTHING that round -- which means you wouldn't be able to use the feat in the first place. This is self-contradictory, therefore the only logical conclusion is that you can't do anything next round.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Actually I think it would be to the beginning of your next turn, not the end, so you don't actually lose an action. That's usually the way "for 1 rd" events in the rules tend to work. As boolean mentioned above, when a monk stuns somebody for 1 rd, the target becomes un-stunned just before the monk's turn comes up on the next round. Same concept here.

Right. So you become stunned at the end of your turn, and stay stunned until the end of your next turn.

If you became un-stunned before the end of your next turn, you'd end up being stunned for less than a full round, right?

 

[shilsen]

That's dumb. If the dazed condition wears off at the start of your next turn, you effectively lose nothing.

Perhaps, but I'm just going off the RAW, so I'm focusing on how the rules work. Not whether it's unbalanced or overpowered or "dumb". That's a different matter.

If the daze effect was to take effect the same round you use the feat, then by rights it should prevent you doing ANYTHING that round -- which means you wouldn't be able to use the feat in the first place. This is self-contradictory, therefore the only logical conclusion is that you can't do anything next round.

Not really. The spell says you are dazed "for 1 round after" casting the spell. So it only takes effect after you cast the spell.

Right. So you become stunned at the end of your turn, and stay stunned until the end of your next turn.

If you became un-stunned before the end of your next turn, you'd end up being stunned for less than a full round, right?

Funnily enough, that's how the rules work. If a monk stuns someone for 1 rd with his third and last attack of his flurry of blows, one can argue that the target should remain stunned until after the monk's third attack in the next round. But by the rules, he becomes un-stunned just before the monk's turn comes up in the next round.

And that's how "for 1 rd" effects occur in the 3e rules.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Funnily enough, that's how the rules work. If a monk stuns someone for 1 rd with his third and last attack of his flurry of blows, one can argue that the target should remain stunned until after the monk's third attack in the next round. But by the rules, he becomes un-stunned just before the monk's turn comes up in the next round.

And that's how "for 1 rd" effects occur in the 3e rules.

No, that's how stunning fist works. Anyway, I seem to have mistyped "stunned" when I meant "dazed." And, as we know, the only effect that being dazed has is that you cannot take actions. So, if you do not lose your actions on your next turn, the effect on the caster of casting a Three Thunders spell is nothing. Since the spell description doesn't say the effect is nothing, but in fact says that the caster is dazed for one round, the only interpretation that remains is that the caster is dazed for one round. This can only mean that he loses his actions during his next turn.

You might also notice that the word "round" has several meanings in D&D. One of which is "from an initiative count on one round to the same count on the next round", in which case it indicates a temporal duration. Another meaning is "an allotment of actions which are taken to occur in less than or equal to six seconds." The description of this feat obviously refers to the second meaning, because otherwise it means nothing at all. You are dazed for one round, which means you lose one round worth of actions, specifically the next round worth of actions you are allowed.

That other "reading" is just a deliberate and cynical misinterpretation of both the rules, and the intention of the authors.

Effects that last a certain number of rounds end just before the same initiative count that they began on.

This is the only reference to the way that effects expire after a certain number of rounds to be found in the rules. The dazed condition begins at the next point at which you are able to take actions, which is your next turn. It lasts for one round, which means you become undazed just before you begin the turn after that.