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Boss Fights: Fairly Countering Novas
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<blockquote data-quote="(Psi)SeveredHead" data-source="post: 6311650" data-attributes="member: 1165"><p>The last session I ran had a fairly unsatisfying boss battle. The PCs were 7th-level and looking for a "hunting demon" they knew little about. The PCs were determined to capture it and use it to defend their tower. They passed a skill challenge and therefore got a surprise round on it.</p><p></p><p>It was a Huge tiger (flavor-texted as being a former animal companion) and while it was a solo I wasn't expecting this to be a particularly difficult fight. (By 7th-level, a single at-level solo isn't usually much of a challenge. The creature also wasn't intelligent.) It was a skirmisher, and dealt bonus damage on a charge, had bonuses to defenses against opportunity attacks, and wasn't restricted to free actions after a charge.</p><p></p><p>The PCs were:</p><p>Elven pacifist cleric</p><p>Dragonborn fire elementalist sorcerer</p><p>Deva swordmage</p><p>Half-elf invoker</p><p></p><p>The tiger had an ability stolen from the death knight, slightly modified: </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>At least one player complained that it had an 80% "wash effect off" rate and fighting it was like fighting a Final Fantasy boss, but not in a good way. (I don't think it's common now, but FF monsters were notorious for being outright immune to Sleep and other such effects.)</p><p></p><p>I decided the tiger would try to "eat" anyone who wasn't wearing much armor, especially if they were big and muscular. The first target was the sorcerer.</p><p></p><p>In round one (after the surprise) the cleric used a power that inflicted -4 to hit on the solo. It didn't spend an AP and accomplished little. It did manage to grab the sorcerer, but the invoker teleported him out of his grip. I forget how this happened, but the invoker ended up prone. (I think he was prone when he teleported people, including himself, away from the tiger.)</p><p></p><p>By round two the tiger was already bloodied. It just wanted to grab someone and run off with them, chow down and have an extended rest. The cleric hit it with a power that inflicted -3 to hit for a turn and also dazed it. It washed off the daze though. It really should have attacked the sorcerer again, but the bite-sized morsel of an invoker was lying prone and the tiger just couldn't resist. (Also, -3 to hit cancels out combat advantage against a prone target and the bonus from charging.)</p><p></p><p>The tiger bit the invoker and dragged his corpse away. Yes, his <em>corpse</em> as the tiger outright <em>killed</em> the PC. It didn't get far, having not many hit points left, and even its high speed and bonuses against opportunity attacks didn't help it get away. It didn't even get to spend its second AP before dying.</p><p></p><p>In hindsight, I would have given its Implacable ability more options (such as countering attack penalties)... but also either removed the ability or at least inflicted a -5 penalty to the saving throw when the tiger is bloodied.</p><p></p><p>In other words, I'm thinking of moving alpha strikes into later in the combat. My ideal boss monster would have a lot of anti-control options and maybe high defenses, but only until it's bloodied. When bloodied, it would lose these options but would also gain bonuses to damage and maybe to hit. At this point the PCs <em>should</em> use heavy control on it, spend AP to rack up damage since they won't be missing much, and so forth.</p><p></p><p>In the meantime some of the "boss monsters" in my last campaign were more successful, even if they weren't deliberately designed with the "anti alpha strike" in mind. The last battle, for instance, featured a solo, four artillery pieces that healed her every turn (kind of like interactive regeneration) and a soldier who turned out to be useless. The PCs learned of the healing in the first round and spent the next few rounds killing the highly dangerous artillery pieces (which actually killed a PC) and at the end, very low on healing, were nearly killed by the solo's aura despite dealing more than double her damage. (The solo had two actions, and with two saving throws at +5 per PC turn, made it harder to control her. Although this meant little control was used against her <em>at all</em>, rather than just late in the battle.)</p><p></p><p>Other options include something I found at the Sly Flourish site, specifically interactive defense bonuses, which I've used twice (only once successfully though). Magical ritual "traps" give the boss a defense boost, but the PCs can take them down, which means they're not focus firing the boss. In hindsight, I wouldn't make taking these down a skill challenge, as the PCs didn't want to "waste" rounds not doing damage. Instead, I'd probably use something similar to those artillery pieces, except maybe with defense boosts instead of regeneration, since boosting defenses would reduce incoming control as well. As the fight progresses, the PCs strip off these buffs by smashing totems, then go to town dropping novas on the boss. Of course this gives the boss a turn or two of fairly unrestricted attacks. This is something I could have used for the solo tiger mentioned in the example; the druid could have left a "legacy" of magic "traps" or totems that enhance the tiger's defenses, and the PCs could have smashed these.</p><p></p><p>Indeed, such a setup could be used with a regular boss monster, as the totems (or what not) might be responsible for abilities such as "Implacable", eliminating the need to modify the boss monster.</p><p></p><p>Yet another option is to steal the escalation die idea from 13th Age. The monster might start with <em>higher</em> than normal defenses, but these drop over the course of the fight. Again, PCs might wait until its easier to hit before they inflict control or damage novas on it. Also, the monster might get an escalating attack bonus, so at the time it's better to hit it with heavy control, the PCs also need to hit it with heavy control. (-4 to hit isn't too bad if the monster is getting +2 to hit, and weaken isn't so bad if it's getting lots of bonus damage while bloodied anyway.)</p><p></p><p>An odd side effect is figuring out when a solo should use its APs. Should it do so early on, before the heavy control hits, or is it better to save them for when it's getting bonuses to hit and damage? (Obviously the totems would be destroyed fast, so unless the boss is getting a huge benefit for being bloodied on its own, the monster should spend its AP right away.)</p><p></p><p>All of these ideas would require communication with the players, because otherwise they would probably continue to use start-of-combat alpha strikes because "that's the best strategy" and complain that their control is just washing off the monster's back.</p><p></p><p>But these are just my ideas (mostly copied from other places). I call upon the community to tell me what they would do instead, or what has worked for them before. While it's a 4e D&D thread, cool ideas from other editions and games are also welcome.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="(Psi)SeveredHead, post: 6311650, member: 1165"] The last session I ran had a fairly unsatisfying boss battle. The PCs were 7th-level and looking for a "hunting demon" they knew little about. The PCs were determined to capture it and use it to defend their tower. They passed a skill challenge and therefore got a surprise round on it. It was a Huge tiger (flavor-texted as being a former animal companion) and while it was a solo I wasn't expecting this to be a particularly difficult fight. (By 7th-level, a single at-level solo isn't usually much of a challenge. The creature also wasn't intelligent.) It was a skirmisher, and dealt bonus damage on a charge, had bonuses to defenses against opportunity attacks, and wasn't restricted to free actions after a charge. The PCs were: Elven pacifist cleric Dragonborn fire elementalist sorcerer Deva swordmage Half-elf invoker The tiger had an ability stolen from the death knight, slightly modified: At least one player complained that it had an 80% "wash effect off" rate and fighting it was like fighting a Final Fantasy boss, but not in a good way. (I don't think it's common now, but FF monsters were notorious for being outright immune to Sleep and other such effects.) I decided the tiger would try to "eat" anyone who wasn't wearing much armor, especially if they were big and muscular. The first target was the sorcerer. In round one (after the surprise) the cleric used a power that inflicted -4 to hit on the solo. It didn't spend an AP and accomplished little. It did manage to grab the sorcerer, but the invoker teleported him out of his grip. I forget how this happened, but the invoker ended up prone. (I think he was prone when he teleported people, including himself, away from the tiger.) By round two the tiger was already bloodied. It just wanted to grab someone and run off with them, chow down and have an extended rest. The cleric hit it with a power that inflicted -3 to hit for a turn and also dazed it. It washed off the daze though. It really should have attacked the sorcerer again, but the bite-sized morsel of an invoker was lying prone and the tiger just couldn't resist. (Also, -3 to hit cancels out combat advantage against a prone target and the bonus from charging.) The tiger bit the invoker and dragged his corpse away. Yes, his [i]corpse[/i] as the tiger outright [i]killed[/i] the PC. It didn't get far, having not many hit points left, and even its high speed and bonuses against opportunity attacks didn't help it get away. It didn't even get to spend its second AP before dying. In hindsight, I would have given its Implacable ability more options (such as countering attack penalties)... but also either removed the ability or at least inflicted a -5 penalty to the saving throw when the tiger is bloodied. In other words, I'm thinking of moving alpha strikes into later in the combat. My ideal boss monster would have a lot of anti-control options and maybe high defenses, but only until it's bloodied. When bloodied, it would lose these options but would also gain bonuses to damage and maybe to hit. At this point the PCs [i]should[/i] use heavy control on it, spend AP to rack up damage since they won't be missing much, and so forth. In the meantime some of the "boss monsters" in my last campaign were more successful, even if they weren't deliberately designed with the "anti alpha strike" in mind. The last battle, for instance, featured a solo, four artillery pieces that healed her every turn (kind of like interactive regeneration) and a soldier who turned out to be useless. The PCs learned of the healing in the first round and spent the next few rounds killing the highly dangerous artillery pieces (which actually killed a PC) and at the end, very low on healing, were nearly killed by the solo's aura despite dealing more than double her damage. (The solo had two actions, and with two saving throws at +5 per PC turn, made it harder to control her. Although this meant little control was used against her [i]at all[/i], rather than just late in the battle.) Other options include something I found at the Sly Flourish site, specifically interactive defense bonuses, which I've used twice (only once successfully though). Magical ritual "traps" give the boss a defense boost, but the PCs can take them down, which means they're not focus firing the boss. In hindsight, I wouldn't make taking these down a skill challenge, as the PCs didn't want to "waste" rounds not doing damage. Instead, I'd probably use something similar to those artillery pieces, except maybe with defense boosts instead of regeneration, since boosting defenses would reduce incoming control as well. As the fight progresses, the PCs strip off these buffs by smashing totems, then go to town dropping novas on the boss. Of course this gives the boss a turn or two of fairly unrestricted attacks. This is something I could have used for the solo tiger mentioned in the example; the druid could have left a "legacy" of magic "traps" or totems that enhance the tiger's defenses, and the PCs could have smashed these. Indeed, such a setup could be used with a regular boss monster, as the totems (or what not) might be responsible for abilities such as "Implacable", eliminating the need to modify the boss monster. Yet another option is to steal the escalation die idea from 13th Age. The monster might start with [i]higher[/i] than normal defenses, but these drop over the course of the fight. Again, PCs might wait until its easier to hit before they inflict control or damage novas on it. Also, the monster might get an escalating attack bonus, so at the time it's better to hit it with heavy control, the PCs also need to hit it with heavy control. (-4 to hit isn't too bad if the monster is getting +2 to hit, and weaken isn't so bad if it's getting lots of bonus damage while bloodied anyway.) An odd side effect is figuring out when a solo should use its APs. Should it do so early on, before the heavy control hits, or is it better to save them for when it's getting bonuses to hit and damage? (Obviously the totems would be destroyed fast, so unless the boss is getting a huge benefit for being bloodied on its own, the monster should spend its AP right away.) All of these ideas would require communication with the players, because otherwise they would probably continue to use start-of-combat alpha strikes because "that's the best strategy" and complain that their control is just washing off the monster's back. But these are just my ideas (mostly copied from other places). I call upon the community to tell me what they would do instead, or what has worked for them before. While it's a 4e D&D thread, cool ideas from other editions and games are also welcome. [/QUOTE]
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