Brainstorm for a Metahuman universe - Meta-Republic

I will note, though, that Doom Patrol didn’t appear until the 1960s- DC had been publishing superhero comics for decades before they popped up.
Sure, but Marvel's big-name flawed heroes didn't start appearing until 1961 with the Fantastic Four either. They'd been doing superheroes (as Timely Comics) on and off since 1939, most of which lacked the kind of imperfections seen in the 60s - the first Human Torch, Captain America, and more obscure ones like the Whizzer and Miss America and the first Angel were around for decades before then, just like DC's Golden Age stuff had been. Neither company had a lot of really noteworthy "imperfect" heroes before the late 50s/early 60s "superhero relaunch" - although you could give Marvel some credit there too, since Namor (from 1939) was really an anti-hero type originally and has remained more relevant for all these years than any of the DC characters I cited.
 

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Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
Sure, but Marvel's big-name flawed heroes didn't start appearing until 1961 with the Fantastic Four either. They'd been doing superheroes (as Timely Comics) on and off since 1939, most of which lacked the kind of imperfections seen in the 60s - the first Human Torch, Captain America, and more obscure ones like the Whizzer and Miss America and the first Angel were around for decades before then, just like DC's Golden Age stuff had been. Neither company had a lot of really noteworthy "imperfect" heroes before the late 50s/early 60s "superhero relaunch" - although you could give Marvel some credit there too, since Namor (from 1939) was really an anti-hero type originally and has remained more relevant for all these years than any of the DC characters I cited.
I dont know if its fair to cite Timely Comics in this discussion, since most of their staff and superhero comics (including Captain America) were terminated by 1950. They then as Atlas Magaxines focussed on Westerns, Humour and Suspense/Horror.

Marvel was very much a creature of the 1960’s and counter culture ‘youth’, which is why X-Men were outright created as persecuted minority.

That said, even Timelys flagship characters - android Human Torch, Namor the Submariner and even Steve Rogers were flawed from the start. Namor was an anti-human terrorist and the android Hamond was feared as a public safety threat and was thus sealed in concrete (only to escape and rebel against his makers)
Captain America as ‘super patriot’ fighting Nazi’s was an outright political statement but even then parralels have been drawn between Cap and the Jewish legend of the Golem - ie Captain America is a Flesh Golem!
 
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Dannyalcatraz

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I was going to mention the original Human Torch (1939) had a classic “monster turned hero” story arc. I can’t remember if the android was intended to burst into flame when unveiled, but he was definitely feared when it happened.

And The Whizzer was battling personal demons- namely alcoholism- in the early 1940s. That’s decades before Iron Man had his own bout with that affliction.

I honestly can’t recall any DC characters with similar issues. The closest I can think of is the orphaning of young Bruce Wayne & Karl-El.
 
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Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
I was going to mention the original Human Torch (1939) had a classic “monster turned hero” story arc. I can’t remember if the android was intended to burst into flame when unveiled, but he was definitely feared when it happened.
No it was a design flaw, the synthetic cells the android was composed of had been developed under glass but burst in to flame when exposed to oxygen, fortunately they were eventually stabilized.
 

I was going to mention the original Human Torch (1939) had a classic “monster turned hero” story arc. I can’t remember if the android was intended to burst into flame when unveiled, but he was definitely feared when it happened.
He wasn't intended to flame on and was an unintentional menace whose ignorance briefly exploited by criminals in his first story (arc isn't the right word for it, it was one issue), but that was fixed by the end of his first appearance and he was explicitly a hero from then on, even getting his sidekick Toro in his second issue of Marvel Mystery Comics. His "monster" period was an eyeblink in a fairly long career.
And The Whizzer was battling personal demons- namely alcoholism- in the early 1940s. That’s decades before Iron Man had his own bout with that affliction.
No, I'm afraid not. That's retcon from much, much later on, like most of his "history" has become. He was a fairly typical Golden Age hero in the actual 1940s (right down to briefly having a racist caricature "comedy sidekick" in the form of Slow Motion Jones) and he fell out of print for about a quarter of a century from 1946 to a revival in the 1970s. Marvel's dragged the Whizzer out of obscurity so many times over the years it's kind of amazing, retconning him into multiple superteams that never existed in the 40s, tying him to modern characters and stories via multiple time-travel plots, and generally building up his brief early career to the point where his retconned activity massively outweighs his adventures in chronological publishing history.

In short, his history's a mess and you have to go back and check when and where character elements and related events were actually published on everything regardless of the date in the story itself - or where in the Marvel Fandom timeline a given thing falls, since they've blithely integrated all the retcons there. He was never married in the actual Golden Age books, the WW2 era groups he was on didn't exist during the War, etc. And that complicates post-revival stuff even farther, since his kids (Nuklo and the stillborn one he mistook Wanda and Pietro for) are the product of a retconned relationship between him and Miss America. The "drinking problem" stuff you're citing stems from Bronze Age events involving his retconned kid Nuklo, and I'm fairly sure it was actually added to his timeline even later than Iron Man's 1979 Demon In A Bottle run.

If there's a bright point in all the retcons Whizzer has been put through, Marvel seems to have made a half-hearted attempt to redeem Slow Motion Jones by retconning him into a speedster hero in his own right and his Golden Age portrayal into "propaganda" for the public. I'd be a lot more impressed if that attempt had included any real effort to portray him as a hero in action, but All-Star Winners Squad didn't exactly get a long run and we spend a lot of time with Jones as an old man on a walker with bladder problems.

Tying this into the meta-Republic campaign idea, if there's a lesson to be learned from Marvel's retcons its to Not Do That. Don't introduce time-travel or retroactively change past events in your game or you're going to wind up with this kind of mess.
 

This has always been a problem with heroes with flaws.

I love GURPS
I love Champions
I love Savage worlds.

but it always feels like the metagame is to take disadvantages to maximize points and not have them actually come up.

seen too many optimization in these systems that just suck the wind out of my games.
 


Dannyalcatraz

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I was thinking about some of the more unusual abilities- and disadvantages/limitations- I’ve seen or played in supers games over the years.

In a low-powered supers game in a playtest for an unreleased game, my PC was a Native American sniper/marksman who was able to move like a ghost in any terrain or environment. He wasn’t ephemeral; he was just so in tune with reality that nothing slowed him down. So, for instance, he could run at his top speed through heavy foliage, on icy terrain, or even a crowded sidewalk at the busiest time of day. It wasn’t flashy or OP, but it was very flavorful.

Another movement power on another character was the ability to teleport, but only when unseen by living beings. IOW, he could pop up anywhere that was within his line of sight just before he broke yours- think of Bugs Bunny or the Roadrunner just repeatedly appearing and disappearing behind rocks, trees, and the like. In order to maximize his power, he carried flashbangs and smoke bombs.

I had one alien Brick PC who could grow and increase her density several times over, but she had to consume her regular body mass in food daily, kind of like a shrew. And she was mildly allergic to terrestrial food, so fueling up could result in some illness.

I had a PAG* who had intentionally designed his battle suit to run on an unfriendly, custom, idiosyncratic user interface. Almost every major system required “computing” skill checks- virtually a gimmie for him, given his vast intellect and high level of training. But bad rolls could occur…

Based on Jerry Steiner (Parker Lewis Can’t Lose) and Doctor Who, I had a character who seemed like a normal human, but whose ubiquitous trenchcoat’s multiple pockets were all polydimensional, and full of all kinds of improbable things. (Never got to play him, though.)





* power armor goon
 

In a low-powered supers game in a playtest for an unreleased game, my PC was a Native American sniper/marksman who was able to move like a ghost in any terrain or environment. He wasn’t ephemeral; he was just so in tune with reality that nothing slowed him down. So, for instance, he could run at his top speed through heavy foliage, on icy terrain, or even a crowded sidewalk at the busiest time of day. It wasn’t flashy or OP, but it was very flavorful.
I did something similar in Godlike way back when. Like you said, not super flashy but really helpful for a soldier/scout, as well as for escaping the Germans on the way out of Poland, which is when his powers manifested.
I had a PAG* who had intentionally designed his battle suit to run on an unfriendly, custom, idiosyncratic user interface.
That's a good way to keep your tech from getting stolen too. You might hack the security systems but it won't help when you can't reconfigure Satan's Own UI. :)
Based on Jerry Steiner (Parker Lewis Can’t Lose) and Doctor Who, I had a character who seemed like a normal human, but whose ubiquitous trenchcoat’s multiple pockets were all polydimensional, and full of all kinds of improbable things. (Never got to play him, though.)
You get a love emoji just for the Parker Lewis ref alone. Between that and the Adventures of Pete & Pete Nineties kids had it good.
 

Dannyalcatraz

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That's a good way to keep your tech from getting stolen too. You might hack the security systems but it won't help when you can't reconfigure Satan's Own UI. :)
As I recall, that particular character- Pax- was created during or shortly after Iron Man was going through the Armor Wars storyline. So yeah, that was a consideration.😎

In addition to being “user-unfriendly”, Pax had a shtick that was a departure from the usual PAG designs: he was tough and strong, but most of his weaponry was non-lethal, for one, designed more for control than destruction. And one part of his arsenal was pretty unique: a launchable swarm of nanobots that would allow him to hack & control opposing robots, androids, AIs, computers and fellow PAGs.* Another one was an anti-PAG thermal shock weapon that subjected a target to extreme heat and cold simultaneously.**

So Pax didn’t so much show up and blow stuff up, he’d control an area.






* in HERO mechanics terms, it was a Mind Control that only worked on computerized machines & artificial life forms.

** it made armor brittle- Transformed standard HERO armor into Ablative armor- so it could literally be destroyed bit by bit.
 
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