D&D 4E Brainstorming new 4e subsystems

I must say that I like this idea, although you would probably have all the players using the power at the first possible moment, in order to have it recharge ASAP. this means that adventures would have to be a certain length to ensure that pc's have their '1/2 dailies' for a boss-fight.
Hmmm... I've thought of taking the "Flashback" more literal, like powers that you can use even after they're used - for a cost (like a daily powers, healing surges, magic items).

Another idea: The Final Fantasy-esque "Limit Break" - powers with extra effect if you have no healing surges left. Would make it a bit easier on the defenders, if they had some of these guys.

Cheers, LT.
 

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I have a suggestions though it might be a little dark:

Rituals: Ritual Sacrifice to mitigate cost. Like a druid opening up an animal to see the future or, of course, the obvious. I suppose this is an evil campaign thing (as NPC's can sacrifice others for whatever reason though I suppose some mechanical symmetry is always nice).

I like this idea.

How about "Reserve Powers". A daily or encounter power that grants a minor benefit as long as it had not been expended.

Along similar lines:
Or "Multi Powers". Powers that are both a daily and an encounter power (or at-will, or any combination).

There might be a "Combat Throw" daily power. Used as an encounter power, you can use it to knock down an enemy (dealing no damage). As a daily power, you can deal 1W+STR damage, knock the target prone, and slide it 4 squares. If you slide him adjacent to another creature, you can make a secondary attack to knock it prone, too - and you lose access to the encounter version for the rest of the day...

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On a different note, what I really want is more "non-combat" abilities, especially meta-game mechanics, like they might exist in a Storyteller/WoD game, or in Torg.

For example, a character could have the "Face Archetype". A character with the face archetype gains access to powers like "Connection" or "Romance".
A character with the "Sage Archetype" would get powers like "Idea" or "Research". (I have no idea how these would be implemented yet, but I hope you get my meaning...)
 

I like this idea.
How about "Reserve Powers". A daily or encounter power that grants a minor benefit as long as it had not been expended.

On a different note, what I really want is more "non-combat" abilities, especially meta-game mechanics, like they might exist in a Storyteller/WoD game, or in Torg.

Reserve powers are a great idea. Also, while not a non-combat, powers that more directly use skills in combat could encourage players to go more skillfull routes.

You could have a daily that used your jump check instead of your attack roll. Since skills don't scale as crazily as they did in 3.5, these powers may work better than they did in the Book of 9 Swords.
 

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Heroic Powers: These powers gain some benefit if you are using them while spending an action point.

An interesting idea. The extra bonus can be used a maximum of once every other encounter. So, if this idea is used for an encounter power, the bonus should reflect that. Also, if you are "wasting" an action point on this- that is, giving up an extra action for this special bonus, then it should be even more powerful. The (unmodified) power itself could probably be equal to a normal encounter power, or close to it, either way. You would have to use it at least once every other encounter without the extra bonus. It should still be worth a power selection.

As a daily, you can pretty much assume that it will be used in conjunction with the action point. They should probably be better with the action point use than a standard power of that level but worse without.

Combination Powers: These encounter powers or dailies get some benefit if you use them right after using a specific at-will power.
I see this more as a feat thing. I believe there were similar feats in 3e. They would be similar to the "Astra fire" type feats, but provide better bonuses; and the more restrictive the combo, the better the bonus.

Patient Powers: These powers gain some benefit if you did not attack at all last turn.

Reminds me of the 3.5 scout. That standard action is probably going to be used for movement (or utilities). Either way, I see the ranger as a candidate for this.

Status Dependent Weapons: These weapons gain a bonus if used against a target with a specific status effect. For example, crippling weapon gains a +1 to attack rolls against dazed or stunned targets.


Status Helping Weapons: These weapons gain a bonus when used in conjunction with a power that causes a status effect. Example: A barbed weapon that grants a +1 to attack rolls in conjunction with powers that cause slowing or immobilizing effects.[/QUOTE]

(We should number these and I think it would be a good idea to update the OP with the best suggestions). I see these two as related.
We might get this in the Adv. Vault though fighters do sort of do the second one already. It would be interesting to use the first suggestion in conjunction with the second "fighter powers" abilities. For example, hammers that are good vs. stunned opponents (coupled with weapon specific powers that stun if a hammer).

Minor Powers: Instead of getting 1 new encounter power, you could get 3 minor powers for example, each of them working once per encounter and providing a much smaller bonus. Or a power that could be used multiple times per encounter...but not at will. Further, some of these might be gainable by a feat. Example: As a minor action, once per encounter, gain +1 to your speed.
Or these could be available 1-1 as a feat. Personally, I was thinking of converting some of the weaker powers/non-combat powers as feats. It could get a little wonky messing with the number of powers unilaterally. It would be a nightmare to balance. Well, it'll probably be hard anyway.

Milestone Powers: You can get this instead of a daily. Weaker than a daily, but usable every milestone.

I don't like the idea of some pc's having daily and others having milestones, honestly. PErhaps an alt. rule that allows a pc to recharge a daily?

Healing Surge Feats: Allows you to spend a healing surge to gain some extra bonus to your actions.
I really like this one. I see warriors "shaking it off" to get an extra save or temp hit points. A wizard might be able to put a little of his life force into a spell to give it a little more oomph. Oh yeah, I'm going to have to get cracking on this!

Teamwork Powers: Gains a special bonus if used in the same round as another teamwork power.
No ideas.

Replenishing Powers: Those encounter and daily powers are somewhat weaker than their normal counterparts, but have a chance to restore themselves depending on some factor. (for example, after a critical hit or spent action point)
This would have to be carefully balanced. Perhaps this could be combined with the healing surge idea. Perhaps one would have to spend a healing surge to regain a lesser version of the power. Hmmm, or combined with MR's ideas on daily/encounter dual powers, one could "regain" the use of one's encounter power with a healing surge even if one did use their daily.

Hivemind Powers: You can swap a hivemind power with another such power possessed by another character that is up to X squares away as a minor action.
This is interesting. I could see this as a psionic leader with a different implementation. Powers that have increased affects based on how many allies are nearby. I don't think "hivemind" would be the best name though. Battlemind perhaps?

Alternatively, with the same implementation, it could be a subgroup of "Summoner" powers.

Fatality Powers: Attack powers only. If you kill with such power you gain some benefit until end of encounter.

Sounds good. The power would have to be slightly weaker if it doesn't bring down the foe, but slightly stronger if it does.

Alternatively, this could be a feat class- giving a bonuses for bringing down foe(s). Considering minions, the feat shouldn't be too powerful and should probably not stack. Also, if there are multiple feats of this type, the player should only gain a single bonus for bringing down a single foe. Also, it should probably specify a melee attack (looking at you wizard!)

Focus Based Effects: Characters would have a changeable numerical quantity, called a "focus." This focus value would start at zero at the beginning of an encounter and could go up (or in some cases down into the negatives). The meaning of this would be different for different classes - for example martial classes might be "offense/defense", magic classes could be "magical charge level," etc. There would be powers and ways to alter your focus, and then powers that depend on focus (for example, if you are in a "defensive" focus you could activate a power that adds your focus to your AC).
I could see a class based around this concept. This could be tied to the "patience" idea above.

How about "Reserve Powers". A daily or encounter power that grants a minor benefit as long as it had not been expended.

Along similar lines:
Or "Multi Powers". Powers that are both a daily and an encounter power (or at-will, or any combination).

There might be a "Combat Throw" daily power. Used as an encounter power, you can use it to knock down an enemy (dealing no damage). As a daily power, you can deal 1W+STR damage, knock the target prone, and slide it 4 squares. If you slide him adjacent to another creature, you can make a secondary attack to knock it prone, too - and you lose access to the encounter version for the rest of the day...
This is a good idea. See above. This is definitely a candidate for a class concept. I almost see a sorcerer-type class based on this.

Perhaps one could gain a bonus to certain keywords powers as long as the power hasn't been used. Also, feats could be introduced that would allow one to use an encounter/at-will if one hasn't used the daily (I favor dailies for this). I'm not sure that a single power should give two powers at least without a feat charge.
---

On a different note, what I really want is more "non-combat" abilities, especially meta-game mechanics, like they might exist in a Storyteller/WoD game, or in Torg.

For example, a character could have the "Face Archetype". A character with the face archetype gains access to powers like "Connection" or "Romance".
A character with the "Sage Archetype" would get powers like "Idea" or "Research". (I have no idea how these would be implemented yet, but I hope you get my meaning...)

I like this. A lot. I've had similar thoughts regarding powers such as beguiling tongue. I love the power and the flavor but I don't think one should sacrifice combat ability to improve out of combat ability at least with regard to powers. I think charging feats is enough. I had thought originally to convert some of these powers to feats but perhaps a non-combat meta class system might be a better route. I could see going a route similar to paragon paths and epic destinies. I could see a few of these (call them "archetypes" or "Heroic Archetypes" to go with "Paragon Paths" and "Epic Destinies"?) Each class would have access to certain archetypes or open it up and allow free choice. Each “class” could do things like give free training in a single skill and/or either a choice or specific ‘powers’ at specific levels.
 
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Don't have a name - perhaps Adventure Powers - encounter and perhaps daily powers that can be spent to gain a +5 bonus on a skill check (doesn't work on trained skills).
 

Actually, I was thinking it would recharge after the second milestone of the day, not the second milestone after it was used. The power would recharge at that point, regardless of when during the day it had previously been used. Of course, if it hadn't been used, then the 'recharge' is useless.

Much smoother :)

There might be a "Combat Throw" daily power. Used as an encounter power, you can use it to knock down an enemy (dealing no damage). As a daily power, you can deal 1W+STR damage, knock the target prone, and slide it 4 squares. If you slide him adjacent to another creature, you can make a secondary attack to knock it prone, too - and you lose access to the encounter version for the rest of the day...

Nice idea; very cinematic. Lots of potential.

I like this idea.
On a different note, what I really want is more "non-combat" abilities, especially meta-game mechanics, like they might exist in a Storyteller/WoD game, or in Torg.

For example, a character could have the "Face Archetype". A character with the face archetype gains access to powers like "Connection" or "Romance".
A character with the "Sage Archetype" would get powers like "Idea" or "Research". (I have no idea how these would be implemented yet, but I hope you get my meaning...)


I'm working on something similar at the moment, a system in which players chose a 'vocation' in addition to their class. Sample vocations include Aristocrat, Entertainer, Merchant or Gambler. (this is actually designed to dovetail with a social encounter system that I've almost finished putting together.)

Each vocation grants 'social powers' (I'm thinking of calling them interactions), which are divided into three categories: Encounter, Daily and Weekly.

I want the Encounter Interactions to be the equivalent of at-will combat powers, with each character getting to chose from an available list for their vocation. Encounter interactions will scale with character level.

The Daily Interactions are the equivalent of encounter combat powers, and characters will replace and upgrade them as they go up levels.

For the Weeklies, I'm considering rather large effects that link to the game world, such as pulling in favors, organizing travel to obscure locations, blackmailing people, or threatening peoples finances.

Weekly powers can be recharged by engaging in your vocation in three days of 'down-time' (the equivalent of an extended rest).

At the moment, I'm having a little trouble nutting out the specifics of the powers though. Any suggestions?

(perhaps this post should be forked...)
 

That "social encounter system" would be very interesting to see. I wonder how it would work? What kinds of things would be social "encounters"? Would there be multiple rounds in a social "encounter"? How would you "win" an encounter? (Would there even be such a thing as "winning"? Would it be similar to a skill challenge?

I would love to see this system, even if it isn't completely done yet.
 

Much smoother :)



Nice idea; very cinematic. Lots of potential.




I'm working on something similar at the moment, a system in which players chose a 'vocation' in addition to their class. Sample vocations include Aristocrat, Entertainer, Merchant or Gambler. (this is actually designed to dovetail with a social encounter system that I've almost finished putting together.)

Each vocation grants 'social powers' (I'm thinking of calling them interactions), which are divided into three categories: Encounter, Daily and Weekly.

I want the Encounter Interactions to be the equivalent of at-will combat powers, with each character getting to chose from an available list for their vocation. Encounter interactions will scale with character level.

The Daily Interactions are the equivalent of encounter combat powers, and characters will replace and upgrade them as they go up levels.

For the Weeklies, I'm considering rather large effects that link to the game world, such as pulling in favors, organizing travel to obscure locations, blackmailing people, or threatening peoples finances.

Weekly powers can be recharged by engaging in your vocation in three days of 'down-time' (the equivalent of an extended rest).

At the moment, I'm having a little trouble nutting out the specifics of the powers though. Any suggestions?

(perhaps this post should be forked...)
Personally, I think that you should use paragon paths and/or epic destinies as guidelines. That probably means little choice. But it's simpler to implement (not to meantion less work) and, I think, easier to balance.
 

I guess social encounters would first have to be broken up into categories. Then we must determine the goals of these types of encounters.

Debate Encounter
You are arguing with someone who doesn't want to see things your way.
Goals:
Convince the person that your side is correct. This rarely works.
Convince the audience that your side is correct. This usually works a lot more easily.
Strategies:
Ethos, Logos, and Pathos.
With ethos, you argue with appeals to authority and credibility. (Wisdom)
With logos, you argue with facts. (Intelligence)
With pathos, you use appeals to emotion. (Charisma)


Romantic Encounter
There is an attractive member of the opposite sex (or same sex) and you want to get in their pants.
Goals:
To take the person out on a date.
To have casual sex with the other person.
To have a lasting and meaningful relationship with the other person.
Strategies:
Go to bars. Alcohol= liquid confidence/loose inhibitions.
Strike up conversation on a topic of common interest.
Stand around being attractive and let the ladies and/or gentlemen come to you.
1) Make eye contact.
2) Start some casual conversation. DO NOT bring up sex, politics, or religion. Don't talk too much about yourself, keep asking about the other person.
3) Remember the other persons name!
4) Sometimes she might have an ugly friend so you might need a 'wing man'. This is a good way to get the party involved.
5) It helps if two members of your party are a couple. If girls see a single guy hanging out with a couple, they will be more likely to go for him. Again, a good way to get the party involved.
6) Sometimes there are many people competing for the attention of a single prospective partner. Send your party's controller to burn them.

Intelligence Encounter
You need to find some vital piece of information.
Goal: Get the other person to spill their guts.
Strategies:
Alcohol
Bribery
Blackmail
Intimidation
Seduction
Kindness
Some combination of the last three is good for a 'good cop/bad cop' type of strategy. This is a good way to get the party involved.
 

That "social encounter system" would be very interesting to see. I wonder how it would work? What kinds of things would be social "encounters"? Would there be multiple rounds in a social "encounter"? How would you "win" an encounter? (Would there even be such a thing as "winning"? Would it be similar to a skill challenge?

I would love to see this system, even if it isn't completely done yet.

I'll post up the work in progress later!

Social encounters are for situations larger than something that requires a single skill check or challenge, such as a scene in a bar, a masquerade ball, or even negotiating through a military camp.

A social encounter uses 'beats' instead of rounds (a term borrowed from theater analysis). In a beat, each player involved in the encounter has a chance to move around the encounter and engage in a skill check, or engage in a minor skill challenge. the exact duration of a beat is variable, and can change depending on the pace and tempo of the situation.

Because of the beat system, it is easy to transition into and out of combat with very little fuss, with beats transforming into rounds.

I would talk about it more, but I have to head off.

More to come soon :).
 

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