D&D 3E/3.5 Brainstorming: Sir Stinksalot

[Dannyalcatraz]

So i had this idea of making a Troglodyte Paladin.

Paladin builds aren’t new to me, but I’m wondering what things I can do on the TROG side. I can think of some Templates, of course, but I’m saving that for last.

I’m looking for Feats, racial class levels, and that kind of thing.

 

[Richards]

Given a troglodyte's affinity to monitor lizards, I'd advance a monitor lizard to 6 HD or more (however many HD you decide are needed to get it to Large size - the 3.5 stats show advancement to be 4-5 HD, at which point it's still Medium) so it can be used as a special mount. You'd also need to rule that the mount's long association with troglodytes has made it immune (or at least very resistant) to troglodyte stench.

Given that the troglodyte darkvision goes out to 90 feet, I'd want to capitalize on that - maybe take the Point Blank Shot feat to get to the Far Shot feat, so your troglodyte paladin can become adept at taking out threats at range before they're even aware of the danger they're in (as most creatures with darkvision only have it at a 60-foot range). Sure, it's not very "paladin-y," but having a lawful good troglodyte paladin is already a bit out of the box.

Have you decided what deity he worships? I'm assuming it isn't Laogzed.

Johnathan

 

[Bestbake]

A giant lizard mount would be a fun idea. The Underdark Knight alternate class feature from Complete Champion is also a perfect fit for a cave dweller.

Something like the half-orc paladin's Aura of Awe substitution feature would also work very well. Your friends and allies won't want to be close to you, and an overly zealous and stinky trog knight would be scary.
Maybe you could lean into some defuse options. Paladin's do not have intimidate as a class skill, so I cannot recommend the Imperious Command and Bloodsoaked Intimidate feats, unless your table is sweet with letting the frog have it. Daunting Presence, from Miniatures Handbook, could be a fun choice. Dreadful Wrath is a powerful fear inducing feat, but it may be campaign specific at your table.

Because of the penalties sickened creatures take, consider using some special combat options, like bull rush, disarm, sunder, and trip. The "Improved" feats for any of these would be fun.
The Awesome Smite feat could be considered at that point too. As cool as Knock-Down is, Power Attack is probably easier to take over Combat Expertise.

All this time I assumed troglodytes have a charisma penalty! They mustn't smell that bad

(Be cheeky and play a 3.0 troglodyte, their stench is literally crippling)

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Disclaimer*: this isn’t for any existing campaign. This is a practical exercise in character design. I’ve been playing for decades, and have played most of the stereotypes; so I like to come up with unusual PCs to keep the game fresh for me. It also gives me a library to choose from on short notice, just in case.

The monitor lizard mount is a good idea! If not that, then some kind of dinosaur or some such.

I don’t know about a deity yet. As was pointed out, it would have to be atypical, so I need to give it serious thought. Who would a LG Trog be inspired by? What deity would call a Trog to its service? Would it just be an adherent of an abstract LG philosophy?

The Underdark Knight wasn’t on my radar. Good suggestion! It occurs to me that Marshall, Dragon Shaman and Dragonfire Adept might also be good paladin substitutes or MC options for this PC.

I had forgotten Trog PCs get Multiattack with their natural weapons for free. Perhaps this guy leans into that in HTH. Maybe some Kensai levels.

Re: nonexistent Cha penalty: they can control their emissions, just like a skunk. And skunks can be pretty darn cute. Why not a cute Trog ? Which gives me an idea…Sir PEPE Stinksalot. Heraldic shield: Sable a Pallet Argent (two vertical white stripes on a field of black).



* I should just put one in my brainstorming OPs each time

 

[Orius]

Then give him a bad French accent, poor vision, and excessively amorous feelings towards female lizardfolk.

 

[Richards]

As for how he became a paladin of a lawful good deity, perhaps he's the result of a "nature vs. nurture" experiment - he was raised, straight out of the egg, by a lawful good paladin of Pelor (or LG deity of your choice) determined to show that any creature can be redeemed. (I just chose Pelor because if we're starting out with a troglodyte paladin, why not go all the way to a member of an Underdark race worshiping the god of the Sun? I could see a creature who'd never seen the Sun before being amazed by it: a source of heat, light, and power, dying every night but being reborn each morning.)

Of course, taking him out of his element like that might also remove a lot of the typical troglodyte lore, like monitor lizard affinity and so on, but it's a thought, and this is after all a thought experiment.

Johnathan

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Then give him a bad French accent, poor vision, and excessively amorous feelings towards female lizardfolk.

The ONLY question is how outraaaaaaaaaaaageous the accent would be. (As in, stop at Le Pew or go full Fronch K’nigits.)

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

As for how he became a paladin of a lawful good deity, perhaps he's the result of a "nature vs. nurture" experiment - he was raised, straight out of the egg, by a lawful good paladin of Pelor (or LG deity of your choice) determined to show that any creature can be redeemed. (I just chose Pelor because if we're starting out with a troglodyte paladin, why not go all the way to a member of an Underdark race worshiping the god of the Sun? I could see a creature who'd never seen the Sun before being amazed by it: a source of heat, light, and power, dying every night but being reborn each morning.)

Of course, taking him out of his element like that might also remove a lot of the typical troglodyte lore, like monitor lizard affinity and so on, but it's a thought, and this is after all a thought experiment.

Johnathan

The Pelor idea is solid. A good hook to hang some RP on.

 

[Orius]

The ONLY question is how outraaaaaaaaaaaageous the accent would be. (As in, stop at Le Pew or go full Fronch K’nigits.)

Well if you're doing a paladin, you might as well go full FRONCH. Besides, a Le Pew/French Knight mashup is ridiculously over the top too.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Deeper into the meta RP aspect, I may hum The White Stripes’ “Seven Nation Army” when he goes into combat.

As much as I initially liked the idea I floated of him using his natural weapons preferentially, upon further reflection, it didn’t really fit well with the core “knightly” concept. Sure, human knights would bite, kick, punch, etc., but it wasn’t their go-to.

I think if/when this character gets some flesh on its bones, his Pelorian holy symbol will incorporate sunstone. What was merely an interesting rock found in the caves of his youth, when carved or faceted, became a visual homage to the deity he worships as a holy warrior. To him, finding it was an omen presaging Pelor calling him into His service.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Mechanically, I’ll note that Trog stench induces the “sickened”condition for those who fail (Fort) to save against it. Sickened characters take a -2 penalty to all of their subsequent saves, as well as all Att/Dam rolls, skill checks, and ability checks.

So Daunting Presence has an improved chance of being effective. So would Dreadful Wrath. And either could make him a bit scarier in melee.

Improved Multiattack would eliminate the attack penalties for his natural weapons.

This naturally begs the question: are there any feats that might increase the potency of Trog stink?

Edit: found Ability Focus, which adds 2 to the DC of saves versus Special Attacks, which Trog Stench is.

Virulent Poison does the same to poison attacks. On the one hand, it may have been intended for venoms or secretions, but OTOH, Trog Stench IS affected by magics or abilities that reduce poisons’ effectiveness or neutralize them completely.

 

[Deset Gled]

Mechanically, I’ll note that Trog stench induces the “sickened”condition for those who fail (Fort) to save against it. Sickened characters take a -2 penalty to all of their subsequent saves, as well as all Att/Dam rolls, skill checks, and ability checks.
...
Edit: found Ability Focus, which adds 2 to the DC of saves versus Special Attacks, which Trog Stench is.

Trog Stench and Ability Focus were my first thoughts for a Sir Stinksalot build as well. The next tool I would add in: a (disposable) tower shield. You don't even need to take the feat to be proficient in it.

The basic tactic is to start combat in a pure support and meat shield role. Get yourself in the midst of the enemy, then hide behind the shield and stink up the place. Use whatever other defensive tools you have. The hope is to draw the enemey attacks away from the weak casters and glass cannon melee types, and provide a buff using stench. If enemies are still alive after a couple of rounds, you can drop the tower shield and go on the offensive.

The only thing I would note is that isn't necessarily a build specific to Paladins. Divine Grace and Aura of Courage do help out on this tactic a bit. But it could work equally as well for many fighter types.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Trog Stench and Ability Focus were my first thoughts for a Sir Stinksalot build as well. The next tool I would add in: a (disposable) tower shield. You don't even need to take the feat to be proficient in it.

The basic tactic is to start combat in a pure support and meat shield role. Get yourself in the midst of the enemy, then hide behind the shield and stink up the place. Use whatever other defensive tools you have. The hope is to draw the enemey attacks away from the weak casters and glass cannon melee types, and provide a buff using stench. If enemies are still alive after a couple of rounds, you can drop the tower shield and go on the offensive.

The only thing I would note is that isn't necessarily a build specific to Paladins. Divine Grace and Aura of Courage do help out on this tactic a bit. But it could work equally as well for many fighter types.

I like this, somewhat, but I’m concerned about the fragility of a warrior operating in flankable space, even with his AoE cloud.

Edit: OTOH, he kinda HAS to operate solo if he’s going to use his Trog Stink without taking out his own party. (Assuming no other troglodytes or poison resistant allies.)

So I might need to make him into some kind of Combat Reflexes build to prevent strong-stomached enemies from taking him down from his flanks.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Also: just to fully expand the RP/Mechanicsl possibilities, what other base classes would you consider for a “knightly warrior” besides Paladin?*

Fighters & Knights are obvious. The PsyWar is just as likely an option as a Fighter, thematically, depending on the campaign setting.

Marshals and the aforementioned Dragon Shaman fit the bill, and their auras overlap nicely with the AoE of Trog Stink.

I can see Ranger for a knightly character who operates in the boundaries of the lands of the ruler who knighted him.

The various armored casters- Clerics, Duskblades, Bard, Hexblades, WarMages, Beguilers, and Battle Sorcerer work, though not all of them would work as well as the more melee-centric classes.

Did I miss any?








* To be clear, I want to keep the devotion to Pelor. I think that’s a solid RP base regardless of class. The exception would be if the PC’s actual class dictated otherwise- like being a Dragon Shaman instead of a Paladin. I intend to keep LG alignment regardless of class unless the alternative class prevents it.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Also: just to fully expand the RP/Mechanicsl possibilities, what other base classes would you consider for a “knightly warrior” besides Paladin?*

Fighters & Knights are obvious. The PsyWar is just as likely an option as a Fighter, thematically, depending on the campaign setting.

Marshals and the aforementioned Dragon Shaman fit the bill, and their auras overlap nicely with the AoE of Trog Stink.

I can see Ranger for a knightly character who operates in the boundaries of the lands of the ruler who knighted him.

The various armored casters- Clerics, Duskblades, Bard, Hexblades, WarMages, Beguilers, and Battle Sorcerer work, though not all of them would work as well as the more melee-centric classes.

Did I miss any?








* To be clear, I want to keep the devotion to Pelor. I think that’s a solid RP base regardless of class. The exception would be if the PC’s actual class dictated otherwise- like being a Dragon Shaman instead of a Paladin. I intend to keep LG alignment regardless of class unless the alternative class prevents it.

I like the idea of a Psy Warrior, because some of the Powers fits pretty well for a Trog:

1st level: Prevenom, Chameleon, My Light (aka a gift of Pelor), Metaphysical Claw (should you want to go with Natural Weapons)

2nd: Strength of my Enemy, Dissolving Touch, Wall Walker

3rd: Concealing amorpha, Exhalation of the Black Dragon (bad breath), Duodimensional Claw,

4th: Claw of Energy, True Venom

5th: Adapt Body

6th: Breath of the Black Dragon

All of them increase the thematic of a trog. You are a disgusting creature using their power further the cause of good. Pelor would not want you to hide your true nature in the shadow: embrace your trog nature and cast light upon it!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Pretty well thought out! Good ideas!

It wasn’t in my head before your suggestions, but now this old BÖC tune is dovetailing into the PsyWar version of this PC’s background & mentality…

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Some Devotion Feats might work for this:

Knowledge Devotion
Knowledge Devotion – Feat – D&D Tools

With enough levels in certain KS, you get the functional equivalent of a Favored Enemy/Smite (up to +5 Att/Dam) you can use countless times against a huge variety of foes.

Sun Devotion
Sun Devotion – Feat – D&D Tools

Imbue your weapons with glowing holy Sun power. That would look COOL with natural weapons! The downside is the damage boost is minimal only +1/lvl- but the duration is 1min.



Healing Devotion
Healing Devotion – Feat – D&D Tools

Injured? Give yourself some Fast Healing. It automatically happens if you get knocked down to 0HP without getting killed, so it auto stabilizes. It’s also usable as an analogue to Laying on Hands.


The last two are at least related to Pelor’s Domains.

 

[Deset Gled]

For no apparent reason, I thought today that what a Troglodyte really needs is a class that gives them Hide in Plain Sight. Assassin is probably the most obvious route. A dip into Shadowdancer could work, too.

The important thing is that the enemy is disabled by a terrible spell, but no one can figure our where it's coming from. Truly silent but deadly.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I like that! Not for this character, but…

Maybe as one member of a Trog-centric party, though.

Add in a caster with Stinking Cloud, etc., and their enemies might think they’re surrounded by trogs! (Or fighting in a midden.)

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Back to Sir Stinksalot…
Here’s the Underdark Knight:

Underdark Knight​

If you dedicate yourself to overcoming evil in the Underdark, you might find little use for the paladin's most prized ally, the special mount. By giving up the ability to call this devoted creature, you become a more mobile and effective fighter underground.

Level: 5th.

Replaces: This benefit replaces the special mount class feature.

Benefit: Whenever you are underground, you can draw upon the earth to gain the following abilities. At 5th level, your base speed increases by 10 feet, and you gain a +2 circumstance bonus on Balance, Climb, and Jump checks. You also gain low-light vision that functions as long as you remain underground. If you already had low-light vision, you instead gain darkvision out to 60 feet while underground; if you already had darkvision, add 30 feet to its range.

But in tracking that down, I just spotted the Holy Warrior variant Paladin:

Holy Warrior​

By giving up your spellcasting ability, you gain access to bonus feats much as a fighter does. This choice does not, however, close you off from divine influence - in fact, several of these feats actually increase your divine power.

Level: 1st.

Replaces: To select this class feature, you must sacrifice your spellcasting ability.

Benefit: You no longer gain spells as a paladin, but you can now select a bonus feat at 4th, 8th, 11th, and 14th levels. You can select any feat from the following list for which you meet the prerequisites: any divine feat, Cleave, Extra Smiting, Extra Turning, Great Cleave, Improved Smiting, Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery, Power Attack, Ride-By Attack, Skill Focus (Ride), Spirited Charge, and Trample. This is an extraordinary ability.

Special: A paladin who selects this path can no longer use scrolls, wands, or other magic items that require access to a spell list, unless she has another spellcasting class that grants access to the appropriate spells.

This variant could work very well for this PC who needs to be fighting “on an island”, as well as in the context of some of the feats I’m considering. Some depend on the amount of Smites or Turn Undead attempts the PC has. So gaining access to bonus ES or ET feats could be a nice boost.

Pelor’s Blessing is also an option:

Pelor's Blessing​

A lightbringer paladin excels at slaying the undead. When he channels energy to smite his foes, the power he summons proves doubly effective against the living dead.

Level: 3rd.

Replaces: Divine health.

Benefit: A lightbringer paladin who uses his smite evil ability against undead gains an additional +2 bonus to the attack roll and deals an extra 1 point of damage per two paladin levels. For example, a 13th-level lightbringer paladin armed with a longsword would deal 1d8+19 points of damage when using her smite evil ability against an undead, plus any additional bonuses for high Strength or magical effects that would normally apply. This is an extraordinary ability.

FWIW, the current top 3 classes I’m looking at- solo or MC- are some kind of Paladin, the PsyWar, and the Marshall.