Break my class? Or Critique it.

[Empirate]

What strikes me most is the "limit" of investing much of your power in two items. Not that it isn't stylish, mind you. But it induces a dilemma in the DM: do I take your toys away, rendering you much weaker? Or do I leave them to you, thus rendering what is supposed to be a balancing factor a non-issue?

When you play a Fey Enchanter, you're basically saying to the DM "I'm OP and I know it, but there's an obvious in-game way of putting me down a notch. So obvious it just screams 'DM fiat'. Your choice." I'd rather you trust the DM with the out-of-game choice to allow or disallow your power.


Also, I don't really detect much of a (mechanical) theme here:
Reserve Feats: how do they reflect your "primal" nature? Furthermore, what use are they if you get a bajillion of them, on a spontaneous caster no less?

All arcane spells, plus the Druid list - do you have any idea how many different spells that is? Bit too much, if you ask me, and really going nowhere as far as theme is concerned.

Did you know Light, Gust of Wind, Faerie (!) Fire, Call Lightning, Wind Wall, Hallow, Sunbeam/-burst, Whirlwind, Shout, Sending, Prismatic [whatever], and Bigby's [whatever] Hand are all Evocation spells? Not to speak of fear effects, which are usually Necromancy. Also, Wail of the friggin' Banshee. Quite a few of those scream "primal", fey, nature-bound etc. to me.

Up to three stats for casting seems a bit strange. Why do arcane spells require a high intelligence? Sorcerers and Bards seem to do quite well with limited Int.
I see you're trying to take a page from the Arcane Disciple book limiting Grimoire spells by ability score requirements, but this really only forces very high-level characters to buy ability-enhancing items for more than one stat.

Enchanted Skin is (besides being extremely powerful in its own right - might make a good capstone ability, actually, but there's still more powerful stuff to come, apparently) a double-edged sword. SR is never as good for PCs as it is for monsters, you want to be careful with that.

Enchanted Power: a +5 raise in save DC AND caster level for spending a wand charge?! Looks a little crazy, even if this weren't charges from an auto-recharging wand.

At one with Chaos: this reads outright ridiculous to me. Miracle is a good spell, but at this level, your party Cleric can normally cast it, making it a more-or-less everyday memorization. You're trying to mitigate the power of this un-fey-like ability by imposing massive drawbacks. These drawbacks, however, are so crippling, that this power will never be used, unless some way of mitigating the drawbacks can be found. So either this ability will be a non-issue (because it doesn't see use), or its restrictions will be a non-issue (being mitigated). This is what is called unbalanced - in both extremes.



Game balance:
Also, your chassis is very good, with its full spellcasting plus good skills and skillpoints. Adding powerful class features to a good chassis asks for either a weakened chassis or a toning down of said class features. If I were to redesign the class, the first thing I would do is cut the spellcasting to about two-thirds (losing a level of spellcasting at 1st, 4th, 7th, 10th, and 13th level).

Thus, you either gain massive versatility where spell choice is concerned (much like a Mystic Theurge), OR you gain 9th level spells (by taking less than 10 levels of Fey Enchanter). But not both.

 

[Jack Simth]

Broken or OP? Not even close.

Define overpowered, as you're using it, please. The definition I'm using is "Stronger than the base class it's applied to" - which this pretty much is, with a Sorcerer entry (which seems to be the intent, and is one of the easier ways to get in).

 

[Visigani]

Why I made certain design choices:


The Wand and Reserve Feats: I wanted the wand to be a focal point for the caster. In "traditional" western magic the Wand has been of exceptional importance to many casters, from witches to wizards. This also ties in with why I wanted to limit access to evocation and necromancy spells, both of which can be extremely potent offensively.

Granting the Class what amounts to Eldritch Blast AND Fireball as well as a slew of undead armies en tow felt like ridiculous overkill. Familiar, Animal Companion, Undead Armoy... and can (as per the Grimoire) cast Miracle effectively at will.

The Fluff Reason was simply that necromantic magic is too closely tied with death, and evocation power "evokes/invokes" powers other than those of the fey realm. Kind of Flimsy, but eh?


Like the Wand the Grimoire is another staple of magical mythic folklore and I wanted to incorporate that in a manner distinctly different from that of a Wizard. The Enchanter could turn to her spellbook for some bit of power she otherwise would not have access to.

If you pay close attention the Grimoire is, with some variation, largely a collection of scrolls that consume spell slots rather than the scroll itself.

If you'll notice "Use Magic Device" is a Class Skill for the Class.

The original incarnation of the Grimoire, and perhaps it would be wise for me to re-add it... required the Caster to make a UMD check whenever she cast a spell from her Grimoire.

 

[Dandu]

Would you kindly make a level 15 example character?

 

[Empirate]

Another tidbit I'd like to point out: Miracle is an Evocation spell...

 

[Visigani]

Another tidbit I'd like to point out: Miracle is an Evocation spell...

Hence why it duplicates the effect without actually casting it... what the Caster is doing, effectively.. is unlike the standard Miracle which channels the power of the gods to create an effect... the caster is channeling the power of primal chaos to create such an effect (which would not violate the Fey bond because she is still deriving her powers from said Fey).

 

[Pergentile]

Define overpowered, as you're using it, please. The definition I'm using is "Stronger than the base class it's applied to" - which this pretty much is, with a Sorcerer entry (which seems to be the intent, and is one of the easier ways to get in).

Would it cause problems for a DM? Not under normal circumstances.
Would it cause problems with other experienced gamers than the one using it? Not under normal circumstances.
Would it cause problems when used by an experienced gamer? Not under normal circumstances.
Does the power of the class have precedence in printed 3.5 material? Yes.
Are there shenanigans made considerably easier by it, or does it cause any other situation that would disrupt the game? Not under normal circumstances.

Stronger than the base class it's applied to... wow a LOT of official printed 3.5 material is OP eh? ^^ If that is the case, then it being OP should not be a problem, right?

 

[Jack Simth]

Would it cause problems for a DM? Not under normal circumstances.
Would it cause problems with other experienced gamers than the one using it? Not under normal circumstances.
Would it cause problems when used by an experienced gamer? Not under normal circumstances.

OK... if everyone involved is both well experienced and not a jerk, it doesn't cause a problem. That I'll agree with. Of course, under those circumstances, neither does an Incantatrix build, a pun-pun build, nor a DMM(Persistent Spell) cleric with AMF and the Initiate of Mystria feat. If everyone involved is well experienced, and not a jerk, then nothing inside the game will disrupt the game... other than a fine-print rules dispute, and often not even that. I don't like your criteria, I'm afraid.

Does the power of the class have precedence in printed 3.5 material? Yes.

I might point out that the level-1 Pun-Pun build is done by strict RAW. Unless you build an "I win" button of some kind into the class, you *can't* exceed the power level of stuff that's been printed by WotC. Am I being a bit extreme here? Yes. It's an absurd example to make a point, on the off chance you somehow think that the Incantatrix is a perfectly fine class balance point, or that Divine Metamagic(Persistent Spell) goes well with Initiate of Mystria and the Antimagic Field spell. There are quite a few things that WotC has printed. Among them are a few bone-headed game balance mistakes that made it through the winnowing process due to the sheer volume of material that went to print over the years.

This is really just a long way of saying that I disagree with the criteria used - arguments to the effect of 'This other thing that's official is stronger than X' is not an argument I'm going to accept to support the stance of 'X is not overpowered'.

Are there shenanigans made considerably easier by it, or does it cause any other situation that would disrupt the game? Not under normal circumstances.

This could easily disrupt the game under normal circumstances. This could very easily turn a character into a one-character adventuring party, and require the other players members to either be very skilled at optimization in order to not be rendered redundant.

It grants Fey Skin, and three other Fey Heritage bonus feats - DR 5/Cold Iron, without any further investment, so you're at least melee-resistant. Additionally, it grants full Animal Companion progression, as a Druid of your Caster Level - which means you've got your own easily-replaceable meatshield.

With six skill points per level, and a nice skill list, you've suddenly stolen most of the skillmonkey's schtick (and if you pick the right reserve feats, you can trapfind all day, too... if loudly).

To get in on schedule, you pretty much have to be a full arcanist already, and this fully progresses that.

It more than doubles your spells known (Normal Spells Known; + Spells Known -1 per level from the Grimore; +the entire Summon Nature's Ally line plus Dimension Door and Confusion (Enchanted Legacy); +charm monster, Deep Slumber, and Disguise Self from Enchanted Presence), and gives you the option of a lot selectable Divine spells (Druid List for the Grimore) - which means the Divine caster is mostly redundant, too.

There is no basic role in the party who's spotlight time you cannot easily steal. This is a problem (unless you're in a solo campaign - then it's fine).

It takes no overly-special skills nor overly-complicated build to cause this problem. You're not needing to layer three buff spells that are normally rounds/level while using metamagic reducers on Persistent Spell to make them last all day, like most optimization builds do. You just take this PrC as intended and actually make use of the class features.

If the rest of the people around the table are optimizing their characters well, it won't be a problem, as the party is balanced with itself (the DM need merely through tougher encounters at the party). If the DM is particularly skilled at dealing with parties that have a noticeable disparity in power levels, it's not going to be a problem.

But if the other players aren't optimizing well, and if the DM isn't particularly skilled at dealing with a noticeable power disparity in the party, then this PrC will cause a problem.

Stronger than the base class it's applied to... wow a LOT of official printed 3.5 material is OP eh?

If you'll note, in the original post you referenced, I did say: "WOTC made the same mistake fairly often"

^^ If that is the case, then it being OP should not be a problem, right?

Under certain circumstances, that is true. If everyone involved is both:
a) Skilled at what they do in the game and
b) not a jerk
then everything will be fine... but then, EVERYTHING will be fine. Pun-pun builds? Not a problem. Incantatrix builds? Not a problem. The Wish and the Word? Not a problem.

That's not a criteria I care to use when I decide whether or not to call something overpowered, however.

Does my stance at least make sense?

 

[Pergentile]

*Precedent, not Precedence (I used the wrong word, but luckily I think everyone understood me ^^')

I disagree. I believe your examples (one of which is Pun-Pun) would indeed disrupt a normal game, including with a decent or better DM and moderate or better players (which I consider to be 'normal' circumstances).

If this class is being designed to be used by someone intending to use it for power, then the OP is most likely the kind of player most would not want to play with, and these comments are most likely moot. I like to post comments assuming they are not going to be ignored. ^^ If however, he is designing the class for a specific flavor, and uses the power to be able to keep up without having to sacrifice flavor, then these posts will indeed help him, and my stance that there is nothing wrong with its current power level, is indeed justified in this case.

Under other circumstances, with different context (which is of course assumed, so I could be wrong anyways, which is fine) I would probably agree with you.

Yes, your stance makes sense. ^^ We are really not disagreeing, we are just viewing things considering different context. I assume the context of someone who will play decently, and not abuse the power, and only use to to keep up while maintaining the wanted flavor, with a decent DM. You seem to assume a context of "Someone in the group will screw it up or have a problem". Both make sense, but are simply weighed differently.

 

[Visigani]

I enjoy the debate.

Quick question... would requiring a UMD check to make use of the wand and the grimoire serve as a significant balancing factor?