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<blockquote data-quote="Werebat" data-source="post: 6476842" data-attributes="member: 40158">It's a good question, and it is indeed a &quot;sense&quot;.&nbsp; Greyface assumes everything to be factual -- sometimes to the amusement of others -- until it's pointed out that some untruths are intentionally said by way of making light of things.&nbsp; To this he often replies that he knew it was a joke all along, but that &quot;it wasn't funny&quot; -- the same way a blind man might say of a painting, &quot;it isn't pretty.&quot;&nbsp; And woe betide the one who points out to Greyface that he lacks a sense of humor -- he has NO sense of humor about THAT.But that's just the point.&nbsp; When you shift breaking the game from the purview of the min/maxing rules lawyer to the DM who makes bad calls (with the understanding that DMs are people and people can be influenced), you simply swap one demon for another -- a demon that those of us who remember the earliest editions should be able to remember.There is a reason that many DMs (myself included) really liked the fact that 3E has so many clear rules for so many things.&nbsp; We didn't understand, then, what it would lead to.&nbsp; To be fair, the internet gaming community hadn't yet taken off to the degree that it eventually would.And also, to be fair, it will be harder for players to crib notes on how to wheedle their individual DMs than it is for them to do the same with &quot;ultimate builds&quot;, lists of &quot;bargain basement magic items&quot;, and the like.&nbsp; If they lack wheedling skill, they won't be able to fake it with a printed script from online the way they can fake min/max mastery.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Werebat, post: 6476842, member: 40158"] It's a good question, and it is indeed a "sense". Greyface assumes everything to be factual -- sometimes to the amusement of others -- until it's pointed out that some untruths are intentionally said by way of making light of things. To this he often replies that he knew it was a joke all along, but that "it wasn't funny" -- the same way a blind man might say of a painting, "it isn't pretty." And woe betide the one who points out to Greyface that he lacks a sense of humor -- he has NO sense of humor about THAT. But that's just the point. When you shift breaking the game from the purview of the min/maxing rules lawyer to the DM who makes bad calls (with the understanding that DMs are people and people can be influenced), you simply swap one demon for another -- a demon that those of us who remember the earliest editions should be able to remember. There is a reason that many DMs (myself included) really liked the fact that 3E has so many clear rules for so many things. We didn't understand, then, what it would lead to. To be fair, the internet gaming community hadn't yet taken off to the degree that it eventually would. And also, to be fair, it will be harder for players to crib notes on how to wheedle their individual DMs than it is for them to do the same with "ultimate builds", lists of "bargain basement magic items", and the like. If they lack wheedling skill, they won't be able to fake it with a printed script from online the way they can fake min/max mastery. [/QUOTE]

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