breathing hydrae

[Bad Paper]

Can a pyro/cryo-hydra breathe (with all its heads) and attack (with all its heads) in the same round?

SRD tells us "All heads breathe once every 1d4 rounds." The breath weapon is not listed in Special Attacks. It seems to me that aside from being bitten a hundred times per minute, every fifteen seconds or so you get the Special of the Day.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Can a pyro/cryo-hydra breathe (with all its heads) and attack (with all its heads) in the same round?

No: "Using a breath weapon is typically a standard action."

The breath weapon is not listed in Special Attacks.

Well, there's no stat block at all for pyro- or cryo-hydras. But, it is a special attack and for further description, check out the SRD on special abilities.

 

[mikebr99]

Can a pyro/cryo-hydra breathe (with all its heads) and attack (with all its heads) in the same round?

SRD tells us "All heads breathe once every 1d4 rounds." The breath weapon is not listed in Special Attacks. It seems to me that aside from being bitten a hundred times per minute, every fifteen seconds or so you get the Special of the Day.

It doesn't say so... but the breath weapon should probably be the same as a dragon's... and:

Breath Weapon (Su): Using a breath weapon is a standard action. Once a dragon breathes, it can’t breathe again until 1d4 rounds later. If a dragon has more than one type of breath weapon, it still can breathe only once every 1d4 rounds. A blast from a breath weapon always starts at any intersection adjacent to the dragon and extends in a direction of the dragon’s choice, with an area as noted on the table below. If the breath weapon deals damage, creatures caught in the area can attempt Reflex saves to take half damage; the DC depends on the dragon’s age and variety, and is given in each individual entry. Saves against nondamaging breath weapons use the same DC; the kind of saving throw is noted in the variety descriptions.

Mike

 

[Bad Paper]

No: "Using a breath weapon is typically a standard action."

Yes, but we're talking about a hydra, the same thing that can move twenty feet and make a full attack in a round. The same thing that can unleash a whopping two more full attacks each round in attacks of opportunity. So, uh, yeah, that's why I'm wondering whether it is a special case.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Yes, but we're talking about a hydra, the same thing that can move twenty feet and make a full attack in a round. The same thing that can unleash a whopping two more full attacks each round in attacks of opportunity.

So it can move twenty feet (move action) and breathe jets of fire (standard action) in a round, and also unleash a whopping two more full attacks each round in attacks of opportunity.

As for breathing and attacking, what we find we're missing is exactly what sort of action 'attacking with all its heads' is. I'm inclined to rule that it can replace the single melee attack that is normally part of an attack action, charge action, or AoO with a melee attack from each head. So this would mean that breathing and attacking is only possible if the attacks come from an AoO - the hydra can't take a standard action to breathe, and also take a standard action to attack or full-round action to charge.

My ruling there does mean that "even if they move" is reinterpreted as "even if they take a move action" - in other words, I'd allow a hydra to stand from prone and attack with all its heads, or control a frightened mount and attack with all its heads. If I wanted to adhere slightly more closely to the wording in the hydra entry in formalising my ruling, I'd have to say something like "attack with all its heads on a charge action, or on an attack action in a round that it moves (but not in a round that it uses a move action for some other purpose)", which isn't as elegant.

-Hyp.

 

[Bad Paper]

control a frightened mount

...evokes a pleasing mental picture of terrified Gargantuan mount trying to buck off a ten-headed lizard.

Thanks for your input. I'll go with toasting its lunch with its standard action, and eating its lunch as attacks of opportunity.

 

[Nyeshet]

I tend to be of the view that all the heads can breathe fire rather than just one. Thus perhaps during the first round 2 decide to breath fire, during the second round another one breaths fire while the first two take a 1d4 round breather and the remaining heads consider breathing fire on the following rounds, etc.

Or, I suppose, you can limit the entire hydra to 1d4 rounds, but in that case all of the heads can (and should) breath fire the one round, then again all of them 1d4 rounds later. Otherwise, if only one head can breathe fire every 1d4 rounds, the ability is simply underpowered for the Hydra's CR. Hydras are meant to be a multi-creature, a serious menace that is difficult to slay.

One of the issues I have with D&D monsters is that many of them were unique - not merely rare - in the original mythology. These include the hydra, the chimera, the cerebus, etc. They were meant to represent major and unprecidented challenges to the various heroes of the myths, requiring from those heroes skill, luck, and insight, endurance, and combat ability well beyond what was typical.

This is not an issue readily dealt with in normal D&D games, I admit, unless one limits the appearance some creatures. Granted, all DMs do this to some degree anyway, if only limiting the ones they less like in favor of those they do like.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Or, I suppose, you can limit the entire hydra to 1d4 rounds, but in that case all of the heads can (and should) breath fire the one round, then again all of them 1d4 rounds later.

That's what I get, reading the ability.

I don't think anyone's argued that the hydra can't breathe with all its heads... just that it can't breathe with all its heads and attack in the same round (barring AoOs).

-Hyp.