Bring back spell memorization times

[OmegaMan950]

If we're going back to the roots of D&D we need to go in the deep end, feet first!
Spells take 10 x spell level minutes to memorize, this is not concurrent with a resting time of 8 hours during which nothing more strenuous than 2 hours of being the lookout can be taken. Attacked by wandering monsters during the 8 hour block? No spells for you!
While we're at it, lets roll for spells too! I want the real old school experience!

 

[ahayford]

IMHO...just more bookkeeping that is unnecessary.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Yeah the current 1 min per spell level is too convoluted for the core. Should a time (like 15 or 30 mins) to do all your spells. Any extension like the current or from 3e or previous should be an optional module

 

[Sunseeker]

While we're at it, lets roll for spells too! I want the real old school experience!

Then go play a retroclone.

 

[OmegaMan950]

Then go play a retroclone.

How dare you sir?!? Infringe on my gaming style! Calling it "badwrongfun", you are ruining my ...

I can't go on, my sarcasm fuse has blown. Shidaku, you are right

I made this thread because I see people arguing against players regaining all hp after a long rest (important for melee characters) claiming that it goes against the idea of resource management, while casters regain all spells (an important resource that affects the rate of hp return through magical healing) after a long rest. Spells are less important to a caster then hp are to a melee character.

There has also been a backlash against the martial/melee dailys (which have been in the game since 3rd edition) with the argument being it breaks the 4th wall of the imagination while memorizing spells vancian style from a spellbook takes an insignificant amount of time.

There must be others seeing this problem

 

[Janaxstrus]

There must be others seeing this problem

Nope. I'm loving the new system.

No need for a grid. Actually feels like D&D, not a minis game. It's awesome so far.

 

[OmegaMan950]

Nope. I'm loving the new system.

No need for a grid. Actually feels like D&D, not a minis game. It's awesome so far.

A grid affects the presence of regaining hp and fighter dailies vs. regaining spells?
Is this all the designers needed to do? remove the grid and you're happy?

My point still stands, why do we give melee classes the short end of the stick?

 

[Janaxstrus]

A grid affects the presence of regaining hp and fighter dailies vs. regaining spells?
Is this all the designers needed to do? remove the grid and you're happy?

My point still stands, why do we give melee classes the short end of the stick?

Because if you read about the playtest, they said they would be using the simple fighter to test the first go round. As they get deeper into the playtest, the complex fighter will make an appearance.

That info has been repeated a few times.

Dailies, encounters etc, will be a big strike against 5e for me. So I love the current system.

 

[Raith5]

I agree that the basics of DDN look interesting but I am with OmegaMan some old school elements leave me cold. Wake when the modularity kicks in!

 

[OmegaMan950]

Because if you read about the playtest, they said they would be using the simple fighter to test the first go round. As they get deeper into the playtest, the complex fighter will make an appearance.

That info has been repeated a few times.

Dailies, encounters etc, will be a big strike against 5e for me. So I love the current system.

I've read the playtest a few times over now, and I understand the fighter presented is the "basic" fighter, I also posted my thoughts comparing the "basic" fighter throughout the editions for comparison in the playtest fighter thread

Weapon proficiency, armor proficiency, good hp, +2 to damage, strength mod. damage on a miss, 2 action points per day at second level, and cleave at third level.

Even for the most basic of the classes this is really poor

1st/2nd edition fighters got the best saves, (not possible now due to the saves based on ability scores) Weapon specialization, exceptional strength, extra hp based on high constitution scores, and multiple attacks.

3rd edition fighters got grapple, bull rush, disarm, trip, sunder, AoO, and 2 extra feats by 3rd level.

4th edition slayers (the basic fighter) got 2 stances, dex mod bonus to damage on basic melee attacks, power strike, +1 to hit, a utility power at 2nd level, and an increased power strike at 3rd level.

The 5e basic fighter can just attack, and attack some more.

Everything I've listed above is what makes the fighter distinct. Any class can improvise, any class can have a meaningful history, any class can be the current focus of the story, any class can use terrain to its advantage, any class can use henchmen in their service. The 5th edition fighter doesn't even get a bonus to these DM fiats and discretions.

This is a terrible effort.

The playtest fighter was always going to be controversial, and this was the crucial time to show that simple in 5E could still mean effective. WOTC have dropped the ball.
I've listed reason why I have a problem with casters and long rests, I'm looking for a response. Instead you said "I love the new system, It doesn't have a grid" A total non sequitur.

Why do melee dailies break immersion while a caster regains all memorized spells at the start of the adventuring day? Did he have spell books on tape?

Why is it bad for melee characters to replenish their resource (hp) after a long rest and for casters good (spells) when both are equally abstract or absurd.