Bringing others into the hobby (based on comments from Shelly Mazzanoble)

[Glyfair]

In the disaster that has been Astrid's Parlor (which I don't want to discuss here - it's just far too close to becoming a political discussion) I found an interesting point in this post.

2. Barbie. Yeah I did compare role-playing to playing Barbie when I was 6. Anyone who has ever played with a Barbie doll will tell you this is role-playing. A broad definition maybe, but roleplaying none-the-less. I WAS Barbie. My friend WAS Skipper. Our adventures didn’t involve hunting down bugbears or long lost scrolls, but we hunted down Ken, searched for long lost evening gowns, and cruised the sidewalk in the pink Corvette. I also played house, tea party, waitress (I had a penchant for stacking dishes, okay?), movie star, dress up, zookeeper, all of which are essentially role-playing. My point in the interview, as it is in the book, is to make “role-playing” less of a foreign concept for women by illustrating it’s something (harmless) we’ve done our whole lives. You know that. I know that. But to some it will conjure up creepy images of therapy sessions and…well, let’s not go there.

I think she touched on a good point that transcends just bringing female players into the hobby.

"My point in the interview, as it is in the book, is to make “role-playing” less of a foreign concept for women by illustrating it’s something (harmless) we’ve done our whole lives."

Take that comment, remove "women" and insert "others." Isn't that most of our real goals for the game (those of us who aren't content with our insular group that plays at home)? Try to get people to roleplay who might be interested in the hobby by making it more approachable.

I know there have been various attempt through the years of varying success. The Rocky & Bullwinkle RPG was certainly different, but not successful. I heard good thing about the Pokemon RPG, but I don't really think it got much exposure. World of Darkness, on the other hand, brought in a lot of people who wouldn't roleplaying before that.

Maybe there should be more attempts at "feeder" RPGs. Things like a "Barbie RPG" designed to appeal to a group that already roleplays. Admittedly, that game wouldn't lead many to D&D, but it doesn't have to. Maybe we could even end up with more variety in roleplaying, because more people would find areas to explore.

Who out there is roleplaying already that might be tapped? We have all those fantasy sports guys who are sort of "roleplaying" being a GM of a sports team. Maybe there is a step from that into a roleplaying direction.

Thoughts?

 

[delericho]

Role-playing has become a very common educational and team-building tool. Almost everyone is familiar with it, and large numbers are familiar with it by that name.

Additionally, fantasy has had massive movie exposure lately, with the Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter and Pirates of the Carribean films being so popular.

So, there is absolutely no reason huge numbers of people shouldn't be potential gamers. The only questions are: can they be attracted to become actual gamers, and how should this be achieved?

Personally, I think a huge amount can be gained by a fairly simple image during the marketting of the 4th edition. Of late, WotC have been presenting female gamers quite often in their marketting. However, it's generally been in the context of the 'token female' in the group. If, instead, their adverts include an image (or images) of a group composed entirely of women, or including a 'token male', that might go a long way to attracting women to the game.

Or not, I don't know. I'm pretty sure it can't hurt, though.

 

[jdrakeh]

Role-playing has become a very common educational and team-building tool.

I think that "very common" may be pushing it. There are some employers who use Freud's roleplay to build positive group environments, though that's only nebulously linked to tabletop RPGs (at best). These practices are not, however, what I would consider "very common". I've worked in a great many industries, several of which are ostensibly breeding grounds for such therapeutic roleplay (e.g., a halfway house for parolees), and never seen it once. All of that said, I'm lobbying for a weekend Dungeonbash or D&D campaign at my place of employment, specfically toward that same end (i.e., team building). Of course, that at least three of us are gamers really helps.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Role-playing has become a very common educational and team-building tool. Almost everyone is familiar with it, and large numbers are familiar with it by that name.

Not quite true, especially outside the US. Whenever I do tell someone about my roleplaying hobby, I have to add quickly that it doesn't involve dressing up in leather costumes and playing "nurse and patient" or anything like that. D&D is drawing blank stares.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

My impression is that Pokemon Jr has been very big, just through other outlets than older gamers necessarily are aware of.

I agree that there need to be more entry level games. I think WotC's done a great job with Mirrorstone, but they seem disinclined to link those novels to the D&D game, for whatever reason.

In the world of MMORPGs *cough* Disney's had a good sized hit with ToonTown, and a monster hit with Club Penguin. I'd love to see WotC make an effort to create a kid-friendly Gleemax portrait as well. (Disclaimer: Gleemax is not an MMO, etc., etc.)

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Whenever I do tell someone about my roleplaying hobby, I have to add quickly that it doesn't involve dressing up in leather costumes and playing "nurse and patient" or anything like that.

Clearly one of us is playing D&D wrong.

 

[delericho]

I think that "very common" may be pushing it.

Not quite true, especially outside the US.

Well, I must say I'm surprised by that. I've encountered it frequently, and no-one has so much as blinked at the notion.

D&D is drawing blank stares.

Again, I'm surprised on that one. I don't recall meeting anyone who hadn't at least heard the name, even if it was only in the context of "isn't it that game that..."

 

[Jeysie]

Well, I must say I'm surprised by that. I've encountered it frequently, and no-one has so much as blinked at the notion.

I'm in the US, and I'm with Kae'Yoss on this one. If I mention that I roleplay once a week to non-geeks, it tends to provoke one of three responses:

1. People who know just enough to remember the old "moral scare" about D&D. "Isn't that that, uh, game they used to say was Satanic and caused suicide and stuff? I, uh, though you were a nicer girl than that."

1b. People who know just enough to think of it as "that sort of thing that nerdy/geeky people do".

2. People who think it's the kind of "roleplaying" that Kae'Yoss mentioned. This usually draws either wide-eyed stares, snickers, or knowing glances, followed by me hastily correcting their misassumption.

3. Completely blank looks.

I find it's easiest to explain roleplaying as either "structured improv" (for any "Whose Line is it Anyway?"-inclined folks) or as collaborative theater where you make up the script as you go along. Not that that tends to generate that much more interest, but it at least gets the general point across in a way that most non-geeks are familiar with.

I do think it's mostly the "roleplaying is for geeks/nerds/weirdos" stereotype that is the problem I encounter most frequently, and the one that would need to be overcome to draw more non-geeks into the hobby.

Peace & Luv, Liz

 

[T. Foster]

Not putting up a 960 page* barrier to entry would certainly be a move in the right direction...

*optionally "only" 320pp if you happen to know someone who's already read (or is willing to read) the full 960pp

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Not putting up a 960 page* barrier to entry would certainly be a move in the right direction...

*optionally "only" 320pp if you happen to know someone who's already read (or is willing to read) the full 960pp

Well, D&D isn't, and probably will never be, a rules-light game. It wouldn't be D&D if it were.


Of course, introductory products, like 3e's basic game or 4e's Keep on the Shadowfell (or whatever it's called) can ease people into the game, and some educational efforts - like demo games, info leaflets, and the like - will further help.

For one thing, the barrier only seems to be 900 pages or so thick, and telling people about that will help, too:

The Player's Handbook has a big section about spells, and many tables. You don't need to read all that. You decide on a character class and then only read the stuff you need about that class - and, not even all of that, either. Information for the first couple of levels will be all you need at first.

And that's all that you need to know as a player.

The DMG has lots of information about very different things, and the DM doesn't have to read it all in one go. He doesn't have to read about all the environmental hazards, about building your own world, doesn't have to read all the tables about NPTs, doesn't have to know each PrC or magic Item by heart.

So that's another big bunch of pages that aren't a real barrier.

Finally, the monster manual. Not something you just read cover to cover unless you're one of us hopeless addicts. You read about a couple of monsters of the lower levels at first, and make your way through the book as your group grows more powerful.

And yet another wad of paper you don't have to treat as a barrier.


And if you don't start up a gaming party from scratch, without anyone in there that ever played D&D (or RPGs in general), the barrier gets even smaller.



I do think that Wizards should have a leaflet on how to use the core rules. A beginners' guide to D&D. They should be lying around on conventions and in gaming stores, as PDFs on their website, and so on. Tell people that you don't have to read through 900 pages in one go, tell them what parts of the book are important for players at first, what is important for DMs, and what parts can be left for later. This can be the same stuff they put in the books themselves (if they put stuff like that into the books), or something else.

I think that could draw people to the gaming table!