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<blockquote data-quote="Gargoyle" data-source="post: 88944" data-attributes="member: 529">This makes me wonder if the player is just testing you as a DM, or is just roleplaying the paladin chaotically for the fun of flirting with evil.&nbsp; The former would irritate me, but the latter might be fun.&nbsp; Not all players need to play the paladin class with the intent of not falling from grace.&nbsp; If you allow evil characters, maybe he's just working towards being a blackguard.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Immediate loss of all powers, atonement necessary, would be my choice.&nbsp; The other options seem to cheapen the class for me.&nbsp; And he wouldn't realize his powers were gone until he tries to use them.&nbsp; (first time he rolls a saving throw his bonus from Divine Grace doesn't help, discovers he can't lay on hands, turning automatically fails even on a successful roll).&nbsp; That's how I picture it.&nbsp; But you could have them slip away gradually or have him suddenly realize that they are gone at some specific time, maybe at the crack of dawn, or do it in some other way.&nbsp; Again, it's up to you.The reason I take what may seem to some to be a hard-line approach (but is really just following the rules) is that I think paladins should be hard to play.&nbsp; It's a very cool class when played properly.&nbsp; &nbsp; Note that if he was a new player and didn't really understand the paladin class, I'd probably talk to him out of the game about it(which wouldn't hurt in any case).&nbsp;&nbsp; Also, if there was doubt in the my mind that he violated the Code (ie if the Baron was an evil tyrant and not the &quot;legitimate authority&quot; and the paladin didn't lie to him) then I'd probably not take away his powers at all, and might just have him receive dreams or visions with guidance on how to act more honorably.&nbsp; After all, it takes &quot;gross violations&quot; of the Code (or an evil act) to lose your powers and become an ex-paladin.&nbsp; I have a new player in my game who tried to play a paladin, and found it wasn't for her, so I let her change retroactively to a fighter.&nbsp;&nbsp; She's happier and the game is more fun for everyone.&nbsp; Paladins aren't for everybody.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Gargoyle, post: 88944, member: 529"] [B][/b] This makes me wonder if the player is just testing you as a DM, or is just roleplaying the paladin chaotically for the fun of flirting with evil. The former would irritate me, but the latter might be fun. Not all players need to play the paladin class with the intent of not falling from grace. If you allow evil characters, maybe he's just working towards being a blackguard. :) Immediate loss of all powers, atonement necessary, would be my choice. The other options seem to cheapen the class for me. And he wouldn't realize his powers were gone until he tries to use them. (first time he rolls a saving throw his bonus from Divine Grace doesn't help, discovers he can't lay on hands, turning automatically fails even on a successful roll). That's how I picture it. But you could have them slip away gradually or have him suddenly realize that they are gone at some specific time, maybe at the crack of dawn, or do it in some other way. Again, it's up to you. The reason I take what may seem to some to be a hard-line approach (but is really just following the rules) is that I think paladins [i]should[/i] be hard to play. It's a very cool class when played properly. Note that if he was a new player and didn't really understand the paladin class, I'd probably talk to him out of the game about it(which wouldn't hurt in any case). Also, if there was doubt in the my mind that he violated the Code (ie if the Baron was an evil tyrant and not the "legitimate authority" and the paladin didn't lie to him) then I'd probably not take away his powers at all, and might just have him receive dreams or visions with guidance on how to act more honorably. After all, it takes "gross violations" of the Code (or an evil act) to lose your powers and become an ex-paladin. I have a new player in my game who tried to play a paladin, and found it wasn't for her, so I let her change retroactively to a fighter. She's happier and the game is more fun for everyone. Paladins aren't for everybody. [/QUOTE]

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