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Message: <blockquote data-quote="outsider" data-source="post: 4843058" data-attributes="member: 54690">A half orc brutal scoundrel rogue could be doing 1d8+3d8+17(+6 dex, +4 str, +3 enh, +2 iron armbands, +2 weapon focus).  Average damage per attack would be 35. That was a quick spec, there may be errors or ways to improve it.  All I did basically was spec for 18/14 dex/str(pre racial bonus), and grab all the phb feats/items that boosted damage/to hit that I could remember off the top of my head.When he's not power attacking, his average damage per attack is now 35, equal to the above described rogue.  The rogue would have +20 to hit(+6 level, +6 dex, +3 prof, +3 enh, +1 expertise, +1 nimble blade).  When the ranger power isn't power attacking, the brutal scoundrel is doing equal damage, and with a higher to hit bonus(even if the ranger has flanking and the rogue doesn't).  Also note that attacking reflex via Piercing Strike is equivilent to over +3 to hit on average.Let's assume that the ranger power attacks something, and has a 50% chance to hit it.  41x.5= 21.5 average damage per round.  The scoundrel would have a 65% chance to hit.  35x.65= 22.75.  If he was using piercing strike on the average monster, he'd hit 80% of the time.  35x.8=28.Rogues are balanced on the theory that they will always have combat advantage, and they typically will.  Optimally the ranger would be using his pet to as a flanking partner for the rogue.  If not, the party defender absolutely should be doing so, as it's part of his job.  If not, the rogue should be a drow.  If not, he should be devoting his power choices to gain combat advantage(ie easy target, crimson edge, etc).  If none of the above apply, he probably shouldn't be playing a rogue.This is all 1:30 am theory crafting, but I think it all adds up.  Note that I simplified things a bit by ignoring crits.  I also took a very simple build, rather than something with complicated math like a Drow Daggermaster rogue.  I think the key points to remember are:To hit is king in 4th edition.  If you can't beat the ranger's damage, beating him in to hit bonus may be easier and even more effective as far as round to round damage goes.Contrary to popular thought, taking an 18 attribute is actually the best way to go some of the time.  This is extremely important for anybody that has either Dex or Int as their attack stat, because a single stat controls all 3 of the most important numbers(to hit, ac, and damage), so you should spike that stat as high as you can.Warlocks, unfortunately, do sucky damage.  Maybe this changed in Arcane Power, but straight PHB they can't begin to compare to a fighter or a rogue, nevermind a dual wielding ranger.</blockquote>

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