Bucklers for monks?

Roland Delacroix said:


Heh, have you played in a group with a monk? Monks have one of the highest AC's among classes after the first few levels. You'll notice monkas almost always play a part in AC smackdowns.

And no, I wouldn't allow it. Shields are armor. As a martial arts fan i'd be flexible on allowed weapons, but I have never seen a movie where a monk wields a shield.

Yes, I've played in a group as a monk The AC in not very good without magic, compared to other fighting classes.

That's assuming some sort of reasonable point buy. With an 18 Dex AND 18 Wis, AC is 18 - and can get all the way up to 22 at 20th level.

That's not very high at all, and he's not very likely to have both an 18 Dex and Wis, while still having some reasonable Str, Con and Iin (Cha is the "throw-away stat for a monk).

I admit they get that AC vs. Touch Attacks, which is excellent.
 

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Artoomis said:
The real rules problem is that shields both are and are not armor, it depends on where you are reading in the PHB. In some places "armor" is clearly meant to include shields, in others it is clear not meant to include shields.

Example, please?
 

CRGreathouse said:


Example, please?

Sorry, we've been though this before, and I'm just not up to going through that all again.

However, for one example:

Class descriptions call out shields seperately from armor, shields are in the armor table.

There are other places where they either seem to be armor, or seem to be not armor, but a shield (sort of armor, sort of not).
 

Artoomis said:

Class descriptions call out shields seperately from armor, shields are in the armor table.

Yes, but fess up.

They discuss both Shields and Armor specifically with regard to proficiency for the other classes.

They discuss neither Shields nor Armor specifically with regard to proficiency for the Monk. The discussion on armor in the Monk section is on how it applies to their special abilities, not on whether they are proficient in it. Proficiency for either of these is an omission for a Monk and it is merely assumed that Monks are not proficient with either because it is not listed that they are.

So, comparing other class descriptions is like comparing apples and oranges since you are talking two different things: proficiency (other classes) vs. affect on special abilities (monks).

Unfortunately, "armor" is like the word "round". It can have several meanings dependent on what you are discussing. Hence, I think you have to look at intent. The intent appears to be for Monks to use their own protections (i.e. AC from dex, wisdom, and increasing on the chart) and not rely on any external mundane protections such as any type of armor, shields inclusive.

"Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Monks are proficient with…

When wearing armor, a monk loses her AC bonus for Wisdom, AC bonus for class and level, favorable multiple unarmed attacks per round, and heightened movement. Furthermore, her special abilities all face the arcane spell failure chance that the armor type normally imposes."

You'll note that nowhere does it say anything about shields at all, hence, it's just as reasonable to infer that they mean the "all inclusive" definition of armor, instead of the more restrictive one.

So, since neither interpretation has nothing to indicate more validity, I fall back on apparent intent of the designers. It seems that they did not intend for Monks to use Shields or Armor, hence, they appeared to intend that neither would work properly with the special abilities.
 
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Artoomis said:

Class descriptions call out shields seperately from armor, shields are in the armor table.

At least there, it is clearly labelled under a Weapons and Armor Proficiencies entry. If shields were not armor, then they have no business in that entry.
 

I also believe that the designer didn't intend for the monks to use a shield efficiently.

And I would add that contrary to what has been expressed earlier in the thread, I believe that allowing them to use a buckler would make a significant difference.

A shield, any shield, is more than just a +1 or +2 to AC. It's also the potential to stack up to +10 worth of enchantment on it.

The monk already has a pretty good AC in a standard game that follows a standard treasure curve.
 

Accoring to the Sage and the FAQ, wearing a shield is the same as wearing armor for a monk.

Can someone please point me at the place where this
is documented? I cannot find this statement in the FAQ
named DnDFAQv07122002.pdf.

Thanks for your help,

~D
 




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