Buff Polymorph

[Guest 6801328]

Not fun?

On the handful of times my old sorcerer would cast Polymorph, the other players in my old group would get really excited, especially when I would polymorph the Dwarf Fighter.
In real life, the guy was a massive Jurassic Park fan.

Just the thought of being able to turn into a T-Rex and chomp down on Minotaur skeletons and Triceratops-riding Uthgardt barbarians would make him first shout with delight, and then go on a rampage.

The fact that the Oathbreaker Paladin would ride the T-Rex into battle made it even more awesome.

Yeah, that's cool and fun.

But the 3rd or 4th time the exact same thing happens it's less cool and less fun.

Maybe that's just me, though. YMMV.

 

[Gadget]

I saw the title and thought someone was proposing a 'buff' to the Polymorph spell and thought to myself "Of all the spells in 5e that could use a buff, that's not one that comes to mind." Glad to see I was mistaken.

 

[TwoSix]

Yeah, that's cool and fun.

But the 3rd or 4th time the exact same thing happens it's less cool and less fun.

Maybe that's just me, though. YMMV.

Polymorph IS fun, but having a wider assortment of CR 6-10 beasts available would make it more fun.

 

[TerraDave]

I appreciate the replies, but am still having trouble with how OP it seems, and also from the RP/metagame angle. Though that last part may just be me.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Polymorph IS fun, but having a wider assortment of CR 6-10 beasts available would make it more fun.

Especially if some of them had interesting abilities.

 

[Satyrn]

Polymorph IS fun, but having a wider assortment of CR 6-10 beasts available would make it more fun.

I'm kinda burned out from statting up the more vanilla skags, scythids, rakk, etc, but making more badass varieties at various CRs sounds like a good addition to my to-do list.

 

[Mistwell]

I often/usually see it used the other way: turn into the Giant Ape first, and when that dies you can go back to your regularly scheduled character at full health.

And maybe I haven't done the full white room theory on this, but how is 2 attacks (+9 to hit) doing 3d10+6 just "ok" for 7th level?

Yeah, it's just OK. "The target's game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast....The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can't speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech."

So, no magic weapon. No magic armor. No magic items at all in fact. I am unsure if it can use feats but it won't matter much as most of those feats won't apply very well to "fist" and "rock" (none of Great Weapon Master, Sharpshooter, Shield Master, Polearm Master, etc.. would apply). Can it use Battle Master manuevers? Unsure. But, I am pretty sure yes, the damage output of your typical 7th level fighter will be more than "Multi-attack: Melee Weapon Attack: +9 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 22 (3d10 + 6) bludgeoning damage." You were likely at or beyond +9 to attack already (+5 ability bonus, +3 proficiency, +1 magic item, none of which counts fighting styles like Archery which would put it to +11). You already had two regular attacks, you likely had something giving you a bonus attack, and you may well have reaction attacks as well. Your weapon is already doing pretty good damage, modified by something or several somethings (Great Weapon master, Sharp Shooter, Battle Master manuevers, magic, etc..). I think your typical fighter is in fact dishing out around this damage or more...but with a MUCh better armor classs, and far more flexibility and use of their feats (they have two or three of them at this stage) and class options and magic items. In fact as a non-humanoid you're not even a valid target for some beneficial spells from your spellcasters I believe while in Giant Ape form.

Naw, I think friendly Polymorph is best used when the fighter is already at risk of going down...not to start a battle. It's not as effective, it's not as flexible, and it's not as fun.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Yeah, it's just OK. "The target's game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast....The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can't speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech."

So, no magic weapon. No magic armor. No magic items at all in fact. I am unsure if it can use feats but it won't matter much as most of those feats won't apply very well to "fist" and "rock" (none of Great Weapon Master, Sharpshooter, Shield Master, Polearm Master, etc.. would apply). Can it use Battle Master manuevers? Unsure. But, I am pretty sure yes, the damage output of your typical 7th level fighter will be more than "Multi-attack: Melee Weapon Attack: +9 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 22 (3d10 + 6) bludgeoning damage." You were likely at or beyond +9 to attack already (+5 ability bonus, +3 proficiency, +1 magic item, none of which counts fighting styles like Archery which would put it to +11). You already had two regular attacks, you likely had something giving you a bonus attack, and you may well have reaction attacks as well. Your weapon is already doing pretty good damage, modified by something or several somethings (Great Weapon master, Sharp Shooter, Battle Master manuevers, magic, etc..). I think your typical fighter is in fact dishing out around this damage or more...but with a MUCh better armor classs, and far more flexibility and use of their feats (they have two or three of them at this stage) and class options and magic items. In fact as a non-humanoid you're not even a valid target for some beneficial spells from your spellcasters I believe while in Giant Ape form.

Naw, I think friendly Polymorph is best used when the fighter is already at risk of going down...not to start a battle. It's not as effective, it's not as flexible, and it's not as fun.

How'd you get to +5 ability score AND cool feats by level 7?

Or even just the +5 ability score?

Let alone the assumption of +1 weapons by level 7? (Not in the games I've played in.)

Whatever, man. Your experience is vastly different than mine. Game on.

 

[Mistwell]

How'd you get to +5 ability score AND cool feats by level 7?

You have either two or three ASIs by that level as a fighter (one at 4th, one at 6th, and one at 1st if you're human). You start with a 16, so two ASIs and one feat is pretty standard if you are human. At 8th level you get yet another feat as a fighter by the way, so you will have 3-4 ASIs at that point.

Or even just the +5 ability score?

Uh, because fighters get more ASIs than any other class?

Let alone the assumption of +1 weapons by level 7? (Not in the games I've played in.)

It is in not only every game I've played, but every single adventure WOTC has published for those levels, and in Adventurers League. Xanathar's guide lists the party having SIX major items by that level (likely more as they have six starting at level 5, which is the start of tier two) and a +1 weapon is in the most common of the major items categories. I think it's fair to say most Fighters (which is what we're talking about) have a +1 magic weapon by 7th. Not all, but most, which is the topic.