Buffy/modern 4e setting

[fireinthedust]

So I asked myself, what if I used 4e as the basis for a relatively modern setting? Post-apocalypse, the characters are larger than life heroes, that sort of thing.
Or perhaps a Buffy the Vampire Slayer-style setting.
Perhaps the heroes are able to disguise themselves as normal humans; or like in Changeling where they have the "real" world, and a "secret" world that they have powers in.
Possibly there is another dimension, and the PCs have access to it, or are native to it.

I was thinking of having a mundane set of stats (like tri-stat Mind/Body/Social) for when they are "mere high school students" or whoever; then use their 4e stats for when they bust out with combat or reach a supernatural realm.


Any suggestions for a setting? Or how to do a Buffy-verse 4e game?

 

[roguerouge]

Why not try the Buffy RPG?

 

[fireinthedust]

Why not try the Buffy RPG?

* 4e modern elements would be more interesting for D&D as a whole, as one of the great things about 4e is the difference between crunch and fluff. PCs should be able to dress in jeans and dock martins if they want. If they have a "chainsaw" that happens to statistically be the same as, say, an adamantine broadsword, we can tell the stories we want even if they're not Buffy.

* an apocalypse/zombie world could eventually lead civilization to be closer to D&D (just add magic, etc.). Mad Max with dragonborn? Some magic items like cybernetic limbs?

* my group finally figured out 4e. They don't want to shell out for another system. This includes Palladium (which I personally find clunky, but that's me), M&M (which is lovely), and even the Buffy RPG.


I was thinking that this thread could address general questions regarding a more modern setting for D&D. Imagine Changeling: the Lost, using 4e. That could be fun!

 

[maddman75]

* my group finally figured out 4e. They don't want to shell out for another system. This includes Palladium (which I personally find clunky, but that's me), M&M (which is lovely), and even the Buffy RPG.

Um, the Buffy system can be figured out in less than an hour of gameplay. Especially coming from 4e, your players are not going to have the slightest trouble with it. Nor should they feel the need to buy any books. (Apart from how awesome they are). I really wouldn't treat that as much of a concern. In fact, IME the idea that each player needs a copy of the rules is pretty much a D&D-ism. (Also, you're getting this response because there's already a Buffy RPG and its really awesome )

Casting 4e as a modern game would take a lot of work. The powers are fairly general, but they aren't completely effects-based either. It would be easier to do that with M&M, because a blast could be a bolt of flame, a machine gun, or laser beams from your frikken eyeballs. It really is "hit someone at range".

4e's powers would have to be completely rewritten. As for the classes, the roles would not be nearly as insightful, nor would they match up with what happens in Buffy or most modern shows. Then there's the matter of fighting on grids and minis, which is great for tactical combat, not so much for fast-paced cinematic action.

There are further issues as well. 4e is built on the assumption that everyone has something to contribute in combat. Therefore, severely modded, the system might work for a military-style game, where the characters are all special forces members. But in Changeling where the character's power might mostly reside out of combat, or Buffy where a character doesn't have any special powers at all (and hangs out with people who do), this is a serious issue. The game's central assumptions are running counter to the genre you're wanting to emulate.

So would it be possible? Of course, but I don't think it would be very desireable. I would seriously doubt that you could come up with a reasonable approximation of the TV show with 4e as a base ruleset. It would have to be altered out of recognition.

It would also represent an immense amount of work. What classes are you going to include? Will there be wizards and clerics? Druids? What about races - everyone a human? There goes a major part of how 4e allows customization. What about sidekick types? Social face-men? A scientist? A reporter or other investigator? A cop? All these are common archetypes in modern games that entirely new classes would have to be invented for. And as said, even then, unless you're playing military forces or something your players are going to wonder why you're bothering with all these tactics when they're playing a high school kid who got in over his head.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

The big obstacles to a D&D 4e modern are; ranged weapons, you really need to retool all the melee types to cope with ranged firearm based combat. I would need to relook at D20 modern and Star Wars to offer any concrete suggestions. It should be easier (IMHO) than older version of D&D but quite a bit of work at the same time.
One of the more interesting bits is that existing melee types would need a option to become modern weapon profficient and their powers would need to be expanded to reflect that. This is because firearms are easier to use and more effective in more situations than crossbows, bows and slings and what not and in may cases make reasonably clubs when necessary.

The other problem is skills, there are not enough skills in the existing game to cover all the modern exocita that one can be trained in.
Again one should look at D20 modern and Star Wars.

I would like to see a modern game that could simply plug into D&D because I have always wanted to do a crossover, (did it in Palladiun once and it was fun) but do not have the time to make the system for 4e.

 

[maddman75]

I would like to see a modern game that could simply plug into D&D because I have always wanted to do a crossover, (did it in Palladiun once and it was fun) but do not have the time to make the system for 4e.

Going in that direction would actually be pretty simple, if you're talking about D&D characters in a modern world. Just give the 'monsters' lots of strong ranged attacks for their guns, and you're good to go.

That makes me think of another issue - armor. Armor is part and parcel of D&D, but rare or nonexistant in modern genres.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Going in that direction would actually be pretty simple, if you're talking about D&D characters in a modern world. Just give the 'monsters' lots of strong ranged attacks for their guns, and you're good to go.

That makes me think of another issue - armor. Armor is part and parcel of D&D, but rare or nonexistant in modern genres.

But then the fighter sees a shotgun in action and says "I want one of those", or the ranger see a good rifle in action and has a similar reaction. Unless their time in the modern world is short then there is no good reason that they do not get them.
Now the ranger wants to split the tree at half a mile. Actually that might not be a problem but now the fighter has nothing to do, as for the wizard, warlock et al? 20 squares is point blank range for firearms.

 

[fireinthedust]

Buffy: well, ok, think more of a Rifts-esque setting than Buffy per se. I see what you're saying about emulating the show, and M&M would be better for it, for d20.

d20 Modern: I've discovered McWod and am fiddling about with it. I want to make up some characters before trying it out, for a d20 WoD game. That's where I've been since my last post, btw.


4e Rifts: Actually, everyone can use the Modern Wpns. Ranged attacks, they just don't get to use their powers unless they're Rangers. If guns were given the same general damage and range as arrows (ie: use the same stats), that would make it easier and not too unbalancing.

1) terrain features blocking line of sight for guns: boulders, trees, dungeon corridors
2) monsters that are immune to bullets

Armor: well, leave it the way it is. If bullets get past armor more easily, they could have an attack bonus to hit. Magic armor could provide better protection.
Futuristic armor in the form of forcefields or special materials is also a great excuse.

The reality is, so much of any setting is fluff, with dice rolled to settle disputes.

 

[maddman75]

I disagree. 4e is awesome, but its built on assumptions of dudes with weapons and armor being a big part of it. I run a lot more modern games than I do fantasy, and hand to hand combat is a rarity (Except Buffy, which I talked about above). How would defenders work? They'd run up and try to fight hand to hand, against weapons that slice through armor? Think of a medieval battlefield, then think of a modern one.

The whole point of 4e is that its a carefully balanced tactical combat system that is a hoot to play. Outside of combat its actually pretty rules light. If you start multiplying ranged martial attacks by 10 and having them slice through armor, then all that goes out the window.

You would need to not just reskin the powers, they are not generic enough for that to work. Not even the classes, but the roles themselves would need to change. There's no one to deal with technology/gadgets/science, which is a pretty big area in most modern games. Defenders are pretty pointless as well.

I mean you could just call a bow a machine gun and plate mail a force field, sure. But the game isn't going to play like a modern story, or feel like an action movie, spy movie, or whatever you're going for.

 

[fireinthedust]

I disagree.

Specifically, I'm not going to run a "modern" game. Modern is for spies, sure, but it does't cover space opera, or sci-fi concepts like the movie Heavy Metal did. Those are fantasy, and can indeed be covered by 4e. Lasers replace arrows. Swords can be described as made of force-fields. Armor can still be armor.

As it is, everyone who can use a Bow can make a ranged basic attack. Whether one roll with a d6+dex damage is from a bow or a gun or a blaster, the opportunity to do that is still there. Defenders are in use anyway.
Why don't people use ranged weapons more? Why don't dwarven defender-fighters have a crossbow out when they walk through the woods, then Quickdraw their greatsword? I don't know, but they can.

The only reason is that it's understood in 4e that every fight is melee. Seriously. The barbarian will run forward and howling strike the ogre, way before standing back and throwing a rock or trying to collapse the drawbridge on them.
That said, if you put players on a tank, if they have super-melee powers described as written, I would be shocked if the Barbarian didn't use his fancy At-will melee powers rather than staying behind using his ranged basic attacks. Machine gun or not.

I don't think that in a Rifts setting I would need to re-skin all the powers. It's a fantasy setting with tech elements. I don't think anyone would want to re-skin between rifts and eberron and forgotten realms. IMHO.

Buffy setting nothwithstanding, however. I should maybe re-name this thread!