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<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 7159219" data-attributes="member: 20564">First, lack of base variety.&nbsp; This is before even subclass.&nbsp; 1.&nbsp; All monks are extremely agile, needing high DEX for offense and defense.&nbsp; But this means that if you want to build like a sumo, focusing on STR instead of DEX, you're out of luck.&nbsp; Part of this is how good DEX is to start with and then adding more onto it.2.&nbsp; The most efficient use of Ki points in general is stunning because of what it does for the team.&nbsp; But this makes monks end up tactically acting much alike, even when they take different subclasses which should encourage different playstyles.Second, the subclasses don't feel like they were designed with the same calibration in terms of what a ki point can do.&nbsp; For example, Way of the Four Elements monks spend boatloads of Ki for merely moderate effects.Third, the class should also be setting you up for plenty of multiclass possibilities with other martial-arts archetypes, but it's too limiting.&nbsp; For example, your entire unarmed combat feature goes away if you wear armor, even if after all of the editions where finally casters can use armor.&nbsp; So any armored martial arts concept is gone.&nbsp; Not just ones from all the great movies and books, but any variants based on your setting.&nbsp; And it could work - Unarmored Defense gives you options for armored (normal) or unarmored (unarmored defense) both giving viable ACs, and I've seen barbarians played both ways.&nbsp; But monks don't have the freedom to fulfill those concepts.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Blue, post: 7159219, member: 20564"] First, lack of base variety. This is before even subclass. 1. All monks are extremely agile, needing high DEX for offense and defense. But this means that if you want to build like a sumo, focusing on STR instead of DEX, you're out of luck. Part of this is how good DEX is to start with and then adding more onto it. 2. The most efficient use of Ki points in general is stunning because of what it does for the team. But this makes monks end up tactically acting much alike, even when they take different subclasses which should encourage different playstyles. Second, the subclasses don't feel like they were designed with the same calibration in terms of what a ki point can do. For example, Way of the Four Elements monks spend boatloads of Ki for merely moderate effects. Third, the class should also be setting you up for plenty of multiclass possibilities with other martial-arts archetypes, but it's too limiting. For example, your entire unarmed combat feature goes away if you wear armor, even if after all of the editions where finally casters can use armor. So any armored martial arts concept is gone. Not just ones from all the great movies and books, but any variants based on your setting. And it could work - Unarmored Defense gives you options for armored (normal) or unarmored (unarmored defense) both giving viable ACs, and I've seen barbarians played both ways. But monks don't have the freedom to fulfill those concepts. [/QUOTE]

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