Building a Better Rogue

[Gargoyle273]

Better Thief

Well, if you are going to go for the Ambi/Two-Weap technique, id say just pick up a level of Ranger as you are getting your Rogue levels. Nothing wrong with multiclassing, then you get the feats for free. you are going to be in light armor anyway and Hide and MS are still class skills. plus your BAB progression is good.

If you are really looking for a nasty combo, i was in a game where a guy made a human Thief. At 1st level, he picked up Exotic weap: Spiked Chain and Combat reflexes. With a high dex, you can take an AOO against any creature who moves into your threatened space, and with a spiked chain, you threaten out to 10 feet! At 1st level, he was AOO king. If anyone tries to close with you, you smack them first. Max out your Tumble so you can get behind people easily and set up for your sneak attacks. Then as soon as you can, pick up Dodge and Mobility (you might want a level of Ftr at 3rd level so you can get that extra feat). That way you can run all through combat taking AOOs and sneak attacks everywhere you go as a 3rd level character.

With one level of sorcerer, you can get some nice spells early like shield, true strike, or Expeditious retreat (double movement) which will really help you run through combat.

Another useful feat would be Improved Initiative to keep your foes flatfooted as you attack. For skills, Bluff is always useful for the sneak attack when you dont have a friend next to the bad guy, and Use magic device at later levels so you can buy scrolls and use them (like Ex Retreat, Haste, and Invisibility)

as soon as you can, get some boots of striding and springing to gvie you even more movement. you Might even want to take a single level of Barbarian to get that Fast movement ability early (as well as the BAB and rage) but that might make your character concept a little off kilter. It sounds like you arent looking for character development though.

hope this helps.

-Steve

 

[Draconis Imperium]

I would check out Traps and Treachery also. I use Improved Sneak Attack a d8 instead of a d6. There also is a feat called QuickStrike which I think, you hit with a sneak attack then you get a extra melee attack.
Add a level of ranger then a Rapier and a Shortword Combo can be very potent when on a sneak attack. There I know some other feats to enhance a fighting rogue but I do not have a copy here at work with me.
I also added a level of wizard mainly to use scrolls and to gain a familiar to sneak into room without me exposing myself.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

I disagree about short sword and rapier. If you fight with two weapons, take two short swords. That way all the feats you chose will apply to the weapon in both hands. That makes up for any deficiency the shortsword may offer as a primary weapon.

 

[Draconis Imperium]

Good Point, I hadn't thought of that. Two shortswords with weapon finesse and all the other nasties.

Guess my rogue is going to trade his magic rapier.

 

[EbbTide]

Thanks for all the great ideas...

Please keep them coming...

I like the 2 short sword idea and the improved sneak attack feat...

 

[Nightfall]

Try convincing your Dm that you should have the half-shadow template from Manual of the Planes!

 

[Squire James]

If you're not going the two-weapon route, a thug-type Rogue/Fighter is probably best. Something like Rog-Rog-Ftr-Ftr-repeat. You can stop at 4 fighter levels after getting Specialization if you like (Rog16/Ftr4), or go for Rog10/Ftr10 for the feats. You need to decide if BAB and feats is more important than those Rogue special abilities.

If you're a "Hawk the Slayer" fan, max out Dex, go for Rog2/Ftr4, then start on Order of the Bow Initiate and/or Deepwood Sniper. If your DM is insane and lets you do this, buy "Quintessential Elf" and show him that "Your bow has 20' reach" feat that a human fighter can get at LEVEL ONE! Lots better than waiting for the 9th level of a Dragon Magazine epic prestige class (though here it's 30'). Again, most sane DM's say "no" here, so ask before buying.

If you're thinking pure stealth and two-weapon use, take a level of Ranger somewhere and go pure rogue for a while. If you pick a prestige class at all, be sure it's something that adds sneak attack dice. Even here, I'd consider adding 4 Fighter levels for BAB, hit points, 3 feats to play with, and Specialization on that weapon you're using in each hand (that +2 is NOT reduced for off-hand). If you don't mind giving up some damage for versatility, consider making your big weapon Daggers (or a similar light throwable melee weapon) instead of Short Swords. Most of your damage is from Sneak Attacks anyway...

 

[Will]

Depending on how deadly the game is, you may want to consider going the bow route instead.

Yes, it is significantly harder to get sneak attacks in. However, having some distance between you and the targets can make up for a lot.

This works best for a DM who runs encounters in rather open spaces with clutter. This allows some getting back under cover and allowing new sneak attacks at range, at least until you can get invisibility on a frequent basis (at the 6+ level ranges)

DMs that tend to run encounters that are up close and personal... forget it. Also find out if the DM just doesn't like bow sneak attacks... better to not have your character chomped later when the DM 'fixes' rules.

I'm currently doing quite well with a Rog7/Ftr2, with a Cohort who can cast improved and regular invisibility, greater magic weapon. Char also has a ring of invisibility. Relies on the bow, now, though he does have spring attack and other close combat feats, from earlier in his career.

-=Will

 

[Velenne]

Build a better rogue? Look no further than the Sultans of Smack. Check out Jack the Knife on the first page for just one example. But there are many others.

Don't leave out Expert Tactician from Sword & Fist. Aquaint yourself with the errata first but it's very useful for rogues. Essentially, it means that anytime the opponenet you're fighting in melee gets denied his Dex bonus, you get a free attack against him. It's a little more complicated, but that's the gist of it.

Use magic device can never be underestimated. The power of Wands to assist a rogue (Cat's Grace, Darkvision, Knock (who needs Open Locks?), I could go on) is nearly infinite.

MULTI-CLASS! If it's hack'n'slash you're concerned about, and roleplay is out the window, go ahead and start with a human, take a level of rogue first (for the skill points), then go ranger, followed by two levels of fighter. You'll be a 4th level character with EIGHT feats (Level 1 feat + human + ranger(ambi,2wf, track) + fighter1 + fighter2 + 3rd level feat). Then go back to rogue and continue from there. Since you're a human, your highest level class (Rogue) won't count against your XP penalty and your other two classes (ranger and figher) aren't 2 levels apart. So no XP penalty for you!

Regarding PrC's: Assassin is decent but the death attack DC is pretty abyssmal unless you really focus on it. In addition, most high level combats are decided in the first few rounds so while you're sitting there watching your foe, the party wizard or fighter may very well kill him.
There are a variety of good PrC's out there which can suit your character to your taste. Just remember to always emphasize your strengths and keep in mind your effectiveness as you progress in levels.

Hope that helps!

 

[Happiest_Sadist]

Play a kobold, take Ambidexterity, TWF, and Weapon Finesse Dagger (unfortunatly takes untill 6th level). I'd recomend ranger, but with the favored class of corcere you don't want to eat XP penalties.

Multiclass fighter if you want more combat power, then it might be feasible to get rapid shot, quick draw and maybe weapon specilization.


Kobolds are great rogues despite the -4 str. They are small but still have 30 foot move. They have natural armor, which is nice. They have darkvision, they have a +2 to dex. They make at least as good of rogues as halflings if you don't mind the social stigma of being a kobold, which you probably don't.