D&D 5E (2024) Building A Contemporary Fantasy Setting For 5.5E

[TwoSix]

In much contemporary or urban fantasy fiction, you need enchanted weapons (or weapons of special materials) to harm monsters. Gun don't kill goblins or werewolves or dragons -- starsteel does (or whatever). What I think some people ar doing is trying to construct some logic, instead of looking at the actual genre rules. The genre rules in Dresden, for example, line up pretty well with D&D.

And I'm fine with that, but it doesn't eliminate the need for some kind of rules, that's all.

And a lot of the disagreement here is about exactly what kind of genre would actually be workable with the combination of the 5e rules frame and a setting frame based on 21st century technology.

I mean, workable frames for the proposal include everything from "LitRPG System Apocalypse in 2026 Los Angeles, portals start opening up and mindflayers and orcs pour into the city" to "Waterdeep 2000 DR, and the results of the Gondian Tech Revolution".

 

[Reynard]

The four dudes on a road trip in the convertible in the middle of a desert akin to the southwest US getting into adventures was the vibe I was looking for, not necessarily the exact technology or setting. It's not 1:1, but that feel to me was very urban fantasy in a way Eberron isn't.

I am just curious why "akin to the southwest" and not just "in the southwest"? What is gained by making it second world contemporary fantasy? Not arguing -- genuinely curious. As I mentioned, the one time I did it, it gave us a fresh take on our supers campaign -- D&D tropes as supers inspiration, rather than Norse Myths or whatever, plus (more importantly) the ties to the previous campaign history.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Sure, but that isn't contemporary or urban fantasy. That's magitech and aetherpunk.

Magitech works well in D&D and doesn’t need extra rules. And you can still tell stories that are culturally modern. The first adventure in Keys from the Golden Vault features a heist from a modern looking museum (complete with animatronic dinosaur) during a swanky American-style fundraising gala. The Ravnica novel features things like police precincts and high class restaurants. There are casino heists in both Golden Vault and Vecna Eve of Ruin. And so on.

 

[Reynard]

And a lot of the disagreement here is about exactly what kind of genre would actually be workable with the combination of the 5e rules frame and a setting frame based on 21st century technology.

Genre isn't just setting, though. Contemporary/Urban Fantasy is a genre, and so building a setting in that genre necessitates building whatever extra rules you might need with that genre as the primary focus, not some ill conceived attempt at realism in firearms.

 

[AlViking]

It doesn’t matter if it’s likely to succeed or not. Players are going to try it, because it’s the sort of thing that happens in stories set in the real world. And if the players want to do something, you are going to want to have rules to determine if it works or not. You might be able to wing it once or twice, but there are a whole load of things the players will try because they have seen it in real world adventures.

It's still an edge case and no game can account for them all outside of fairly abstract rules. Depending on the genre you're going after though it may do no damage at all since that pickup truck isn't considered magical. But yes you'd have to come up with some abstract rules for damage to both target and occupant probably using spells or traps as a general guideline.

The only modern day TTRPGs that I've even considered use something like FATE which from everything I've read isn't the kind of game I want to play. Maybe someone else knows of a different system and whether or not they even address this.

 

[Remathilis]

And I'm fine with that, but it doesn't eliminate the need for some kind of rules, that's all.

And a lot of the disagreement here is about exactly what kind of genre would actually be workable with the combination of the 5e rules frame and a setting frame based on 21st century technology.

I mean, workable frames for the proposal include everything from "LitRPG System Apocalypse in 2026 Los Angeles, portals start opening up and mindflayers and orcs pour into the city" to "Waterdeep 2000 DR, and the results of the Gondian Tech Revolution".

That is what seems to be why this thread is all over the place. Some people want D&D with a modernistic setting while others want "realistic looking Earth with fantasy elements" and others want Eberron magic tech or sci-fi elements.

 

[GrimCo]

If John Wick can do it, D&D certainly can.

Some folks are focused so much on how "guns just can't work in D&D" that they are missing the point: it is still an action adventure game. It doesn't have to be realistic, any more than melee combat in "regular" D&D is. Which it isn't, not even a little.

John Wick, from 2-4, is live action anime gun fu movie. In first movie, without stupidity of "kevlar lined suits", there is bit of real tactical gun play showed. When John attacks compound where Viggo's son hides, he takes outer perimeter guards from distance with silenced DMR. Same for 2 times when Marcus saves John, he does it using advantage of high ground and distance. As far as CQB goes, Dredd, a sf comic book adaptation, is far more realistic. When Ma-Ma's crew open up from across the building with gatling gun, they duck for cover, not run at them. They also avoid h2h and melee as much as they can,even in cqb.

In d&d, you get into close cause you have to. You really don't have much options for long range engagements. Warlock, with eldricht spear and spell sniper is nasty in any campaign that isn't ye old dungeon. Personally, in world with modern guns, my fear wouldn't be troll with big club. It would be sneaky little goblin with SVD.

As for action adventure game argument, sure, d&d is action adventure game. But some people still play combat as tactical as possible.

 

[TwoSix]

Genre isn't just setting, though. Contemporary/Urban Fantasy is a genre, and so building a setting in that genre necessitates building whatever extra rules you might need with that genre as the primary focus, not some ill conceived attempt at realism in firearms.

I sort of disagree with that. Even within the Contemporary/Urban Fantasy genre, there are individual works that place more or less weight on concepts like the interaction of magic and technology. Dresden is higher-powered, and probably more akin to the relative "weight class" of your standard 5e adventurer.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your posts, but you seem to be saying Final Fantasy XV or Waterdeep 2000, or any other non-Earth setting where the technology is derived from magical underpinnings, rather than being industrial/electrical, doesn't fall under the "urban fantasy" definition.

So that for urban fantasy, we need to have magical expectations layered onto Earth, or at least an Earth-like place with pretty much our current tech level. But simultaneously, we don't need rules for that Earth tech, because we're operating under D&D genre logic, so all that tech is essentially window dressing.

That's workable, but it's a difficult enough path that I can see why you're getting pushback on definitions.

 

[Remathilis]

I am just curious why "akin to the southwest" and not just "in the southwest"? What is gained by making it second world contemporary fantasy? Not arguing -- genuinely curious. As I mentioned, the one time I did it, it gave us a fresh take on our supers campaign -- D&D tropes as supers inspiration, rather than Norse Myths or whatever, plus (more importantly) the ties to the previous campaign history.

Well FF never uses the real world, but that wasn't what I was going for in my example. That does raise a bit of an issue however.

If we are talking a setting fit for publishing, you would have to be very cautious about how D&D's supernatural elements mesh with real world beliefs, especially in the realm of religion and magic. It's very easy to fall into traps of using real world practices and giving them D&D stats (for example, trying to define voodoo, Wicca or shamanism in D&D terms, or trying to give Clerical magic to Abrahamic religions). It's possible, but it's a tricky needle to thread.

It's cleaner, though less exciting I guess, to have a near equivalent to Earth which sands off some of those problems. Though ultimately it's a matter of taste, for me. You can have your road trip in the real Southwest or in Oerth's Bright desert and I wouldn't personally care.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It's still an edge case

It’s all edges and very little middle.