Building a practical unarmed monk

[Lo-Kag]

For a while I've had a concept in my mind of a monk that doesn't use weapons of any kind. I don't believe that there's anyway to make a practical one without using ki focuses though. So if any experienced "monk makers" could possible show me how to make one it would be greatly appreciated. Every time I've tried I can't make the attack bonus worth it.

Would a dwarf or goliath make a good monk?

And try using 18, 16, 16, 12, 12, 8 as the starting ability scores. I know they aren't legal but I always roll for my stats and these are the ones I rolled.

Thank you very much for your help and expertise.

 

[Aulirophile]

Inherent Bonuses would solve the issue. A Hybrid Fighter|Monk with Brawler Style Hybrid Talent would as well (low AC/spending feats to fix AC is an issue tho). If Ki Foci are OK just get Improved Unarmed Strike and MC Fighter for Shock Trooper. +3/1d12 Unarmed Strike. Half-Orc makes that work best.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Remember, monks are a Dexterity-based class in 4e, so you'll want something with a Dex bonus in an ideal world.

Both the goliath and dwarf do have decent secondary stats for you, though, so they could work adequately with your rolled stat spread; the dwarf can be either a Centered Breath or Stone Fist monk, whereas the goliath is best off with Stone Fist. Both also work well with Iron Soul, but you said that you didn't want a weapon at all, and Iron Soul gets most of its schtick from carrying a weapon.

You'd put the 18 in Dexterity, always. You'd put the the 16s in Str and Wis for a Stone Fist monk. If I were doing a Centered Breath monk, I'd put one 16 in Wis and the other in Con for extra health and Fort (since you're not going to be worried so much about Strength except for melee basic attacks), and then arrange the 12s and 8 to taste.

Also, note that the ki focus is not a weapon, but an implement. It enhances your unarmed strike and/or your weapons. So, using a ki focus is not like using a weapon...though note that there are feats that you can take to increase your damage output that use weapons, such as Crashing Tempest Style (use a club in one hand for more damage on Flurry of Blows), or Starblade Flurry (fling a shuriken or dagger for another Flurry of Blows target).

If you don't want to use a ki focus, or, well, *anything*, then you'll want to make sure the campaign is using Inherent bonuses, which sort of make up for not using items for enhancement bonuses.

Brad

 

[The Human Target]

Ki Focuses are not weapons, and exist so that Monks can go around unarmed.

 

[drothgery]

Thematically, if you don't like Ki Focuses or inherent bonuses, you could multi-class to cleric or paladin, then use a holy symbol.

 

[Sigmar]

My version

For a monk in 4e i used the half-orc because he litteraly has the perfect bonuses. +2 to str. and +2 to dex. which makes it available to get a 20 on dex. a 18 on str. and an 11 on wisdom (i know it's a bit low but it's working for me) that makes your defences at level one (i suppose you want him for level 1) - 17 AC 16 fort. 17 ref. and 12 will if your going with the stone fist feature which gives you the mental bastion meaning +1 to your will defence. If you put the un-armored agility as your feat you get 19 AC which is pretty nice for a cloth striker. You get 1 at-will that attacks against ref. 1 that attacks fort. and that's been working for me until now (now would be a spit away from paragon path) and everything is running smoothly. I have a magic ki focus +2 and my to-hit on the at-will's is +12 and i have AC that can rival that of the tank - 25 with no magic armor. (If you NEED him to be un-armed it's going to be 24 because of a feat that gives you +1 AC shield bonus as long as you wield a staff or reach wep.) I hope that atleast one of the things i wrote would be of some help to you.

 

[Kingreaper]

For a while I've had a concept in my mind of a monk that doesn't use weapons of any kind. I don't believe that there's anyway to make a practical one without using ki focuses though.

Why do you not like Ki focuses? You don't hit people with them, they're just things you think about to concentrate your essence.

So if any experienced "monk makers" could possible show me how to make one it would be greatly appreciated. Every time I've tried I can't make the attack bonus worth it.

At high levels, it just won't work without some enhancement bonus.

Until I understand why you don't want a ki focus, I won't be able to point you to a suitable enhancement bonus source.

Would a dwarf or goliath make a good monk?

I wouldn't go with dwarf, but a goliath could be cool as a stone fist, with the racial paragon path to give you reach.

And try using 18, 16, 16, 12, 12, 8 as the starting ability scores. I know they aren't legal but I always roll for my stats and these are the ones I rolled.

18 in dex, 16 in wis, 16 in str

Arrange the others to taste.

 

[nightwyrm]

I'm not too up-to-date with the monk rules but ki focus still doesn't work with feats and utilities that improves unarmed strikes (eg. that epic crit expanding feat), right?

 

[mneme]

Echo others -- Ki Focuses aren't weapons and their whole r'aison d'etre is to allow monks to go around unarmed. Trying to do an unarmed monk while avoiding a Ki Focus is missing the point; it's like trying to make a wizard who doesn't use a weapon and thus avoiding using an implement.

 

[DracoSuave]

I'm not too up-to-date with the monk rules but ki focus still doesn't work with feats and utilities that improves unarmed strikes (eg. that epic crit expanding feat), right?

They work for weapon powers, they do not for implement powers. Monk powers are implement powers.

This is because ki foci allow you to use their enhancement bonus, properties, and powers instead of a weapon's bonus etc. for weapon powers explicitly, but they do not have a provision for implement powers that is different than normal implement rules.

Definately avoid an Iron Soul monk, as they -require- weapons to operate as their implements. For a race, your stat array gives you a good shot for a Goliath or a Dwarf monk. It doesn't really matter--however you are shooting yourself in the foot by not using weapons. Both these races have access to a feat which gives them a good damage boost that can be used with implement powers so long as they use the appropriate weapon. Monk will allow that weapon to be used as an implement... so... yeah.

I have to endorce the Half-orc monk tho. It still gives you that 'tough guy' feel, but its stat array is perfect. Plus its racial abilities work very well with non-armed implement powers.


As for not using a weapon or ki focus... well... you'll end up forgoing your enhancement bonus. This is very bad. There is an option where your DM can allow for inherent bonuses, which are enhancement bonuses gained by reaching certain levels rather than by magic items. This is something you might want to ask about. Bear in mind by doing this, you're sacrificing weapon/implement properties and critical hit bonuses... there is a definate trade off. If you were adamant about it, I as a DM might be persuaded to allow it for you.