Buy High, Sell Low is a Dumb Economic Model
- Thread starter Rune
- Start date
herrozerro
First Post
Well they would have to sell the new item at above list price, otherwise they've made no money on the whole deal!
Which is where the line in the 4e PHB about list prices optionally being actually 10-40% higher then list comes in.
Im not advocating that vendors that buy magic items just melt down everything but it would probably happen eventually if the vendor couldnt find a buyer.
There are also more factors that can factor into the safe 20% base number for most magic items.
Its the scrap cost.
Overhead
Items sitting on the shelf are dead money.
IMCs it's more likely the mage-merchant would disenchant the 14th level item for the residuum, then use that to make a whole bunch of 1st-3rd level items sold at 120-140% mark-up. This actually happened in my first 4e campaign; the ca 2nd level PCs found a 65,000gp Paragon tier ring, couldn't identify it, sold it for a few thousand gp to the 10th level NPC mage who disenchanted it for 13,000gp of residuum and used that to craft items to order for the rest of the campaign. 
Rogue Agent
First Post
If there are people selling magic items, then there must be people buying magic items. And if there are people buying magic items, there's no reason why those people couldn't be the PCs.
The only way for a "PCs can only sell, never buy" market to make sense is if the PCs are the only adventuring heroes in the entire world and absolutely nobody else is retrieving old magic items or making new ones for sale. In other words, if the PCs are the sole suppliers.
But if the PCs are the sole suppliers, that means they have a total monopoly and can charge pretty much whatever prices they want: Somebody will pay it. Expect them to make massive bank on every magic sword they sell.
There's a lot more to running a successful business than rent on a warehouse space.
I think this is valuable GMing advice in general: If the players show an interest in pursuing something in more detail, follow that impulse. Once you've got the details on the table, there are usually lots of interesting stories that will emerge out of them: Whether that's guarding the merchant caravan that's carrying your merchandise; or the city watch coming to question you because the sword you sold someone has just ended up in their back as a murder weapon; or figuring out how to deal with the Thieves' Guild reps who are demanding protection money.
This will also vary over time: Early in my current campaign, we roleplayed through every interaction with the local shopkeeper who acted as an agent for selling magic items from local adventuring parties. That then became a (usually) automated affair unless the PCs had something they particularly wanted to talk to him about. But then, recently, they came into possession of some unique statuary and, rather than just hocking it, they spent the time to seek out a museum specializing in that statuary and sold it for a slightly elevated price.
Basic Auction System -
Finding the Auction:
Any auction has 1d4 + (size of city) participants. Before the bidding players may use a Gather Information or Knowledge (Local) check to find out about potential buyers. The DC for finding out about auction attendants is DC: 15 + 1 per city size +1 for each city category. Think of it in the sense of bowling pins.
15
15 + 1
15 + 1 + 2
15 + 1 + 2 + 3
etc.
Auctions that are Public are easier to learn of (up to -5 on the check) to extremely exclusive (+10 or even requiring a quest to gain entrance). The average offerings at Auction come to between 1/2 - 5x the city's gold piece limit. While this usually means livestock and estates are auctioned in small cities, metropolises may have reclaimed castles, eldritch tomes, and even exotic creatures available for sale.
The Auction House
Auction Houses may be find in most major cities, and some traveling auctions do occur in the hinterlands. An auction house may be a lord's palatial estate, a dungeon in the Mage's Guild, or even a back alley where fences ply their wares. Most Auction Houses charge a fee for entry, the ability to auction goods, or the ability to sell. Sellers pay an Auctioneer commission that usually is in the 5-20% range of the auctioned item's final bid. These commissions depend on the legality of the item, location, and general danger or other factors in handling the item.
Some auctioneers charge no money to come, while many charge a 'paddle fee' to be allowed to bid on items over a certain cost. This encourages only serious bidders, and prevents the seller from being hoodwinked by unscrupulous bidders. The costs are paid before the auction, though a penalty may be paid to the auctioneer to enter into bidding later in the auction.
The Bidding Challenge:
Once an item has come up for grabs it is up to the characters to bid on the item. This bidding is handled through a blind bid process. Each character seeking to make a bid produces their best bid and rolls initiative. The Gamemaster then offers the chance to characters to seek out "Open" starting with the first individual.
Each individual may seek to Open a bid by making an opposing roll against the player. Available skills include Intimidate, Sense Motive, or Profession (Merchant). If the opposed has neither of these skills, they oppose using their Will save. If the initiator wins the Opened bid is seen only by him. If they lose by 10 or more points the opponent Opens their bid. If either party rolls a 1 their bid is open to the entire group. A player may choose instead to Seal his bid with his turn, but anyone who has seen his Open bid keeps that knowledge.
Each character may now choose to Raise, Double, or Back Out. The raise ties and raises the next-highest bid in initiative order, a Double provides an immediate doubling of costs, and a Back Out allows the player to not chance spending more than they had hoped for.
In the first round half of all bidders are removed (the lowest half) and during each round after one more bidder is removed (barring Back Outs). If at any time the Auctioneer receives a bid of 100% or more of the auctioned items cost he is given the chance to Close the bidding, or continue. Bidding otherwise continues until the last man standing. An auction item fails if an established Reserve is not met or (if the consignment is risked with No Reserve) until the last bidder places his last bid.
---
This is a very rough format that allows for a sort of blind man's poker game, and after practicing the game for a few faux auctions with three players tonight it seems to really provide an interesting diversion from standard fare.
Slainte,
-Loonook.
Finding the Auction:
Any auction has 1d4 + (size of city) participants. Before the bidding players may use a Gather Information or Knowledge (Local) check to find out about potential buyers. The DC for finding out about auction attendants is DC: 15 + 1 per city size +1 for each city category. Think of it in the sense of bowling pins.
15
15 + 1
15 + 1 + 2
15 + 1 + 2 + 3
etc.
Auctions that are Public are easier to learn of (up to -5 on the check) to extremely exclusive (+10 or even requiring a quest to gain entrance). The average offerings at Auction come to between 1/2 - 5x the city's gold piece limit. While this usually means livestock and estates are auctioned in small cities, metropolises may have reclaimed castles, eldritch tomes, and even exotic creatures available for sale.
The Auction House
Auction Houses may be find in most major cities, and some traveling auctions do occur in the hinterlands. An auction house may be a lord's palatial estate, a dungeon in the Mage's Guild, or even a back alley where fences ply their wares. Most Auction Houses charge a fee for entry, the ability to auction goods, or the ability to sell. Sellers pay an Auctioneer commission that usually is in the 5-20% range of the auctioned item's final bid. These commissions depend on the legality of the item, location, and general danger or other factors in handling the item.
Some auctioneers charge no money to come, while many charge a 'paddle fee' to be allowed to bid on items over a certain cost. This encourages only serious bidders, and prevents the seller from being hoodwinked by unscrupulous bidders. The costs are paid before the auction, though a penalty may be paid to the auctioneer to enter into bidding later in the auction.
The Bidding Challenge:
Once an item has come up for grabs it is up to the characters to bid on the item. This bidding is handled through a blind bid process. Each character seeking to make a bid produces their best bid and rolls initiative. The Gamemaster then offers the chance to characters to seek out "Open" starting with the first individual.
Each individual may seek to Open a bid by making an opposing roll against the player. Available skills include Intimidate, Sense Motive, or Profession (Merchant). If the opposed has neither of these skills, they oppose using their Will save. If the initiator wins the Opened bid is seen only by him. If they lose by 10 or more points the opponent Opens their bid. If either party rolls a 1 their bid is open to the entire group. A player may choose instead to Seal his bid with his turn, but anyone who has seen his Open bid keeps that knowledge.
Each character may now choose to Raise, Double, or Back Out. The raise ties and raises the next-highest bid in initiative order, a Double provides an immediate doubling of costs, and a Back Out allows the player to not chance spending more than they had hoped for.
In the first round half of all bidders are removed (the lowest half) and during each round after one more bidder is removed (barring Back Outs). If at any time the Auctioneer receives a bid of 100% or more of the auctioned items cost he is given the chance to Close the bidding, or continue. Bidding otherwise continues until the last man standing. An auction item fails if an established Reserve is not met or (if the consignment is risked with No Reserve) until the last bidder places his last bid.
---
This is a very rough format that allows for a sort of blind man's poker game, and after practicing the game for a few faux auctions with three players tonight it seems to really provide an interesting diversion from standard fare.
Slainte,
-Loonook.
