Buying and Selling Magical Items

[Jon_Dahl]

I'm not schooled in economics at all, but...
Supply and demand.
Magical items are very expensive, most of them. Let's look at longsword +1... It costs 2315 gp's. It means something like knights full gear and a horse. If you go to a large city and try to sell it, why anyone would buy it? And why would anyone buy it right a way? Even if the city as "GP limit" of 25000 or so, I still find it kind of amusing that anyone would buy it right away. In my game people usually have their money invested in some way. It's highly unusual to have loose money around in medieval setting, because banking is not (really) invented. Just think of a diamond worth 2000 gp's, and you try to sell it. Now that's hard even these days.

And magic should always get people on their toes. Once in history there was a sword that changed the gender of the wielder... And a sword that caused the wielder to attack random people once a month. As a result, you have to get Analyze Dweomer from a certain overpriced wizard. In other words: Get certification for the item, which will have an insane cost (for low-level items). Just look at Microsoft and licence costs, so you know how it is.

Just as an example:
My players have been selling lot of masterwork weapons and armor in the city. Adamantium items needs certification from guildmaster, which is costly. Overall, the supply of masterwork weapons go over the demand pretty fast and suddenly merchants get difficult. "Sorry, we don't need this... We don't have the money". At the moment, merchants pay players only after they have found a customer for the items.

 

[CharlesRyan]

it's interesting--I have an almost completely opposite reaction. Assuming normal D&D levels of magic items (i.e. they're pretty common--the characters find normal amounts of magic items, a typical 5th level fighter has a sword +1, etc.), it seems hard to believe that there wouldn't be some form of trade in magic items.

Yes, I agree. I guess my suspension-of-disbelief issues come from the commonness, not the market. I've never run a campaign where magic items are common enough to create a market.

 

[Troll Slayer]

Wouldn't the rarity of magic items also hinge on how rare "adventurers" are in your campaign world? Core DnD gives me the impression that there are adventurers everywhere. With that much money in circulation you'd think everyone, even the most impoverished peasant would have more money than is implied. Forgive me if this drifts, but I think I have a point here...

Picture the poor stable boy or CHA 16 tavern wench who gets tossed a gold piece by some cocky player character. Often it's roleplayed out as this shocking moment but if cocky adventurers are a dime a dozen, than I'm sure your character is not the first hoard rich hero to over tip the cute waitress. Then there's the heroes who never bother with coppers, or maybe even silvers, so they pay for everything in gold with a "keep the change." Again, little by little they're putting more money into the hands of the low workers.

Plus so many adventurers take pride in pulling themselves up from poverty, but never forgetting where they came from; or even once wealthy now worldly heroes who want to do good by all. Generosity is heroic. That's a lot of would be Robin Hoods.

So, where does all this money go? Most of it to lower level merchants who sell food, shelter, etc. The pretty wenches family can eat better and live a bit happier now. However, now we have a low level merchant with medium level wealth once this all adds up.

So where does it stop? What keeps every 2nd level merchant from owning a +1 sword in very little time, or even equipping his personal guard with them as well? After all, a LOT more citizens can afford to eat regularly thanks to the gold being thrown around by today's latest dragon slayer.

Guilds are one way to control the money flow, as they effectively keep the majority of wealth in the hands of the "adventurer" class. Either way, this crazy (yet fun!) DnD economy goes hand in hand with it's crazy monster looting population. Hell, I like to think the abundance of equipment is what inspires so many to seek a life of daring and heroics. What came first? The adventurer or the magic item?

In the end, I think that's why I prefer games where adventurers are a rare breed. It makes decisions like this much easier to manage. Magic items are rare because monsters have them, and they're scarier than most people are willing to put up with.

 

[steeldragons]

For me, the finding/trading of magic items is completely location dependent.

As noted by others, magic and magic items are a commodity. So there are those who specialize in the making, distribution and sale of those goods. WHAT kind of goods and how "easy" it is for a party to find them is another matter...and as astutely pointed out by Saeviomagy, how easy it is for them to find exactly what they want is another matter entirely.

Where the use of magic is more common and the locale is closer to those areas (cost for distribution is reduced) items will be easier to find and potentially cheaper (for low level/common items) when found.

For example, the western kingdom of my realm is more divine magic- oriented. There are wizards and magicians around, but barring a few well known exceptions, the clerics and temples are where the real power are.

The nation of arcane mages and large elvish realm, where most magic item crafting takes place, are more in the east. Can you find a magic item shop(s) in the large trading hub cities? Yes, absolutely you can. In the case of Brightmoon and Bluside, it is also possible you will be able to find just about ANYthing you're looking for "for sale" (barring artifacts or very very powerful items). But you sure as hades are going to pay double what you'd pay in the major trading cities on the east coast.

As for actual magic item "dealers" or "shops", I generally break that down by population. (Note: This is simply speaking to the availability of "arcane-type" magic items. The placement and availability of temples offering divine potions, scrolls or services, like resurrection, is an entirely different matter.)

• MOST villages of any significant size (say...over 150 people?) are going to have a local wise woman/man, herbalist, maybe even apothecary shop. These people are there and make their living off the well being of the farming/rural community of which they are a part. So available potions will venture more towards the CLW and Neutralize poison variety. Depending on the knowledge and skill of the potion-maker, maybe a few other "physical-oriented" potions are kept in stock (speed, strength, maybe a special batch of Cure Moderate or Serious wounds for emergencies). There's always the chance, if you're looking for something specific, the potion-maker would know how to make it for you...given time, money, and if you just retrieved this certain ingredient for her...

• Towns would certainly have a specific potions and/or magic supply shop. The selection of potions here will be broader, though still not too powerful (say 3rd level spell equivalents). Given the owner is almost certainly a mage or has access to one locally, some simple wands, a few scrolls perhaps (if he doesn't have them readily for sale, he'd be willing to scribe some up for you for a price.), maybe rings or amulets of resistance or protection. In a larger town, maybe some minor-enchanted weaponry or the odd "more powerful" item that's come through/found its way to his shop.

Regardless of number and power of magic items, these shops also supply your mundane assortment of necessary herbs, spell components, candles, incense, vials, and general equipment needed for magical research. What he doesn't have in store, he probably has a contact for it in 5-7 days or knows where it can be obtained.

• Smaller cities will basically have the same resources as the town, plus a few more options and possibility to find more unusual items. Maybe there is someone who specializes in enchanted weaponry, two or three alchemists in competition with each other for the potion market, and the store owned and operated by the mage's guild where (by city law) all scrolls, wands and other assorted items may be purchased...but perhaps you can find a merchant who perhaps happens to know where you can perhaps find a certain item as a very reasonable price.

• The larger cities of the continent: Andril, Threeways, Brightmoon and Bluside (as well as Ablidon and Flin in the magelands of R'Hath) have very large marketplaces with goods from all across the continent. This includes magic items. Again, number of vendors and availability and levels of power of items will be greater than anywhere else. Can you walk in and find a staff of the magi or a +5 sword...proooobably not. But if you make the right connections or happen to be in the right place at the right time...one never knows, do one.

Throughout the world there is the occasional personality, like Zarachius Jasper (a gnome illusionist/dealer in magic items with a knack for being in the wrong place at the wrong time), wandering the realms with his cart of Wondrous Wares for the discerning buyer.

As previously mentioned, availability in all levels of population is more sparce (outside of major cities) the further west you are. In any of these options cursed or faulty (or downright fake) items are definitely in the mix.

--SD

 

[Dausuul]

So, where does all this money go? Most of it to lower level merchants who sell food, shelter, etc. The pretty wenches family can eat better and live a bit happier now. However, now we have a low level merchant with medium level wealth once this all adds up.

So where does it stop? What keeps every 2nd level merchant from owning a +1 sword in very little time, or even equipping his personal guard with them as well? After all, a LOT more citizens can afford to eat regularly thanks to the gold being thrown around by today's latest dragon slayer.

No, they can't. You can't eat gold, and you can't buy food that doesn't exist. If a town is growing enough food to feed 200 people, and a gang of adventurers rolls in with a wagon full of gold from a dragon's hoard and distributes it among the peasants, how much food is the town growing now? That's right--enough to feed 200 people, same as before. The only difference is that now a meal at the inn costs 10 gold instead of 1 copper.

Similarly, when adventurers increase the number of magic items on the market, they do so via the direct method of hauling them back from dungeons. Pumping gold into the economy doesn't conjure up new magic items, nor does it enable people to afford a magic item who couldn't afford one before. Either the makers of magic items will raise prices to bring demand in line with supply, or there will be a shortage.

Personally, I find the idea that adventuring is a widespread profession, that adventurers haul back boatloads of treasure from dungeons, and that this has been going on for a long time, to be ludicrous. Where is all this treasure coming from? How are these dungeons being restocked given that adventurers are constantly picking them over? How can a stable society exist when there are all these gangs of powerful, heavily armed mercenaries roaming around?

I prefer a world in which the PCs are exceptional. The vast majority of people reckless enough to venture into a dungeon end up as goblin chow. Only a tiny handful have what it takes to become a successful adventuring hero. As a consequence, there are no institutions built around them. If you have a magic item you want to sell, your asking price determines whether you can find a buyer and how long it takes; you can sell almost anything if you're willing to go low enough. But the supply is far too small, and medieval transport and communications far too inefficient, to produce anything like a working market.

 

[Stoat]

I've always been in favor of having some market for magic items. The treasure tables and adventures that I used back when I started playing gave the PC's more loot than they could use. I generally set my games in fairly cosmopolitan areas with reasonably high levels of magic around.

Further, just because magic is available for sale doesn't mean the process has to be boring or flavorless.

Consider Fat Jack: He's an affable Spined Devil who hangs out by the crossroads outside town. Jack takes half his payment and teleports away. 1d4+1 hours later, he returns with whatever the PC's ordered and takes the rest of his payment.

Once, the players paid for some scrolls and were a little taken aback to find them written out on thin sheets of sulfur-smelling metal.

"Is this from Hell?" one of them asked.

Jack looked them right in the eye and answered, "No, of course not."

 

[Celebrim]

For my part, I never assume the PCs are the only adventurers in the world. there's other parties out there, doing other things - and bringing other items and gype back to town to sell.

To begin with, my assumption is always that groups like the PC party are actually extremely rare. In fact, there is an explicit assumption that any such group is actually in some way arranged by the gods (of some sort) and that there are probably not more than 1 or 2 such groups in any given area. In fact, the usual assumption is that it's basicly the PC party and its evil counterpart.

Secondly, the very concept of 'adventurer' is not one in common parlance in my setting. The idea it would give, if someone were to hear the word, would be equivalent to the modern concept of a 'tourist' - someone who travels to far away places for the pleasure of it. PC parties are generally labeled 'mercenaries' by observers, and are often assumed to likely be bandits or worse until they prove otherwise. Eventually, if the PC party acquires a very good reputation, they might earn the appelation 'heroes' as 'mercenary' has much the same negative connotation as it does to our ears.

While mercenary companies are quite common, small elite companies made of a balanced selection of classes and specializing in the arcane, uncanny, and monsterous are very rare. Most mercenary companies are geared toward facing mundane threats and lack your average PC parties investigative and dungeonering skills. They'll do you for an invasion of hobgoblins and many are quite compotent on their own ground, but not so much for incorporeal undead or dragons. As such, it may not occur to local magistrates to consider hiring anyone to deal with such threats, and the PC party is likely to strike them as novelty. Even at quite low levels, in my campaign world seeing a group of mixed races and professions working together for some common end strikes most observers are remarkable. A drawf and an orine traveling together with a cleric and a wizard is just something scarcely heard of except in songs and tales. People will marvel and wonder what it means.

Given this, it's beyond credibility to assume magic will never be traded; even if such trades only occur on a black market they'll still take place.

This depends I think on your assumption of how PC parties will behave. Prior to participating in online discussions, it never really occurred to me that anyone would actually sell magic items because the PC's themselves did not do so. The assumption was that if you couldn't buy them back, then they were basically priceless resources and should be hoarded. In all the games I participated in, players never sold magic items. Even the mundane 'sword +1' was tossed into storage with its dozen or more mates and never sold. The most common use I saw in games for 'sword +1' and other low level magic items that could be spared is that they were given to henchmen and retainers both to make them more effective and to garner the big loyalty bonus (under the rules) that resulted from giving a henchmen his own magic items. The eventual result was something like a network of NPC's loyal to you and relatively compotent to face threats. This was deemed far more valuable in the long run than whatever gold you'd get for the item. If you could safely leave the mules/boat/castle behind with the henchmen and expect to find them when you came back, that was priceless.

As such, it was easy to imagine why magic items weren't for sale. Everyone who owned one made the same mental calculations that you did. Far better that magic be primarily in the hands of those loyal to you, than put it out on the market where likely as not it would end up in the hands of your rivals.

 

[Ahnehnois]

I hand-wave the buying and selling of magic items as much as possible. Ideally, the players will be in a big city and I will simply say they buy and sell whatever they want, without defining a particular vendor or roleplaying any of the process. If they are not in such a setting, I will loosely define the merchant and then assign a few random magic items to be available for purpose. Rarely will there be haggling or any other complicated considerations of availability, coin-changing, or the like. If possible, the buying and selling will take place in between sessions.

All this is because I find using in-game time on business transactions wasteful. My setting assumes that creating magic items is a big business, and I don't use XP costs or a lot of rare ingredients. I want my players out adventuring, not price shopping between magical retailers.

I could imagine things being very different in a low-magic setting, but that is not my average D&D game.

 

[Dausuul]

I must spread some XP around before giving it to Celebrim again.

 

[Celebrim]

Personally, I find the idea that adventuring is a widespread profession, that adventurers haul back boatloads of treasure from dungeons, and that this has been going on for a long time, to be ludicrous. Where is all this treasure coming from? How are these dungeons being restocked given that adventurers are constantly picking them over? How can a stable society exist when there are all these gangs of powerful, heavily armed mercenaries roaming around?

Exactly.

Few things break my suspension of disbelief when reading a module quite as much as their being large amounts of treasure lying around for the taking, which some how has managed to not be found for centuries even though the PC's can just waltz right in and find it with little difficulty. Why hasn't the rumor of this fabulous treasure located not far away, a rumor so easily discovered by the PCs, not prompted someone over the last 100 years to go looking for it? One of my basic proofs that my dungeons at least ought to contain treasure is that my players rarely manage to haul out all or even most of it. They don't recognize it. They don't find it. They don't consider it worth hauling out. It stands to reason that if the players didn't find all of it, then whatever group was last their a few decades before didn't either, and whatever group was their a few decades before that didn't either. Dungeons stay 'stocked' on the assumption that not only do adventurers not always find the treasure, but they often suffer TPK's and leave a bit behind. But the idea that massive wealth especially in the form of readily transportable coins is just there for the taking, especially if the local inhabitants of consequence are 4th or 6th level (or 9th level like in the FR!) and the PC's but 1st level, annoys me beyond all reason.