Buying houses in cities

[Thanee]

Just use Wall of Stone and Stone Shape. That's for free (only need to buy the ground and add some nice furniture).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Vegepygmy]

No one has mentioned the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook yet?

I've thought about mentioning it, but after looking through it, the pricing in it is pretty high. I mean, if you are looking through the components, a basic bedroom costs 700gp. The costs should definitely be revised down.

Actually, the costs are pretty much consistent with the amounts stated by other sources (3.0 DMG, etc.). The "basic bedroom" you're talking about is actually two bedrooms, making the per-bedroom price only 350 gp.

I recently used the SBG to design a simple two-story (one-bedroom, one-office/study, one-small storefront) residence/shop for my wizard character that would cost about 1,000 gp...exactly what the 3.0 DMG says a "simple house" would cost.

Also, bear in mind that the SBG is explicitly intended for use in constructing a stronghold from scratch. If you're talking about buying a pre-existing structure, you may be able to deviate downward from the values given therein. For example, my DM and I agreed that the property my wizard bought is located in a fairly seedy part of town, and was not in the best state of repair, so I got it for 750 gp instead of the 1,000 it would have cost to build it new.

 

[Phlebas]

Just use Wall of Stone and Stone Shape. That's for free (only need to buy the ground and add some nice furniture).

Already been suggested by the priest, but stone shape is pretty crude so it wouldn't be that good for a temple (but pretty useful for running repairs and things like foundations)

I was thinking to just halve the cost of any building work using stone shape. keeps it simple

MfG

Phlebas

 

[lukelightning]

A scroll of suggestion costs 375 gp, so I'd wager a house costs that much to an unscrupulous wizard.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Funny enough we had a long discussion on this in the group - we decided that the prices made sense IF you assume most property is owned by a small group of upper class nobles / merchant houses and rented out. Since property is regarded as a source of income, you dont sell it off unless you're in need of cash so the scarcity of property on the market drives prices up.

Yeah, that's our theory too. Land ownership is a pricey thing with most people having leases that can be revoked; in the case of the nobility those leases are paid to the king via military support.

If you have a landowner-friendly setting that includes financing (complex financing has been around for a while but usually only nobles had access to it), you'd have those artisans (skill+stat+feats => +7 = 8.5gp/week x 52 = ~440gp/year) paying about 30% of their annual income over ~30 years with financing (~4,000gp) or less than a third of that in cash (~1300gp).

Which is realistic since my house is valued at about 2.5x my annual income but that doesn't include things like taxes, insurance, waste removal, etc.

Were I you, I'd have the players get a mortgage simply to have all those reoccurring fees covered. Besides, then you can screw with them by having their mortal enemy buy up their mortgage and evict them or apply legal pressures on them (no magic item creation in the city, reporting unlicensed craftsmen to the guilds, etc).

 

[Phlebas]

Which is realistic since my house is valued at about 2.5x my annual income but that doesn't include things like taxes, insurance, waste removal, etc.

Wish i lived where you live, mines valued at almost 5 x annual income and its nothing special

Were I you, I'd have the players get a mortgage simply to have all those reoccurring fees covered. Besides, then you can screw with them by having their mortal enemy buy up their mortgage and evict them or apply legal pressures on them (no magic item creation in the city, reporting unlicensed craftsmen to the guilds, etc).

Thats nasty evil and malicious.... which gives me a few ideas......

 

[Phlebas]

The "basic bedroom" you're talking about is actually two bedrooms, making the per-bedroom price only 350 gp.

I recently used the SBG to design a simple two-story (one-bedroom, one-office/study, one-small storefront) residence/shop for my wizard character that would cost about 1,000 gp...exactly what the 3.0 DMG says a "simple house" would cost.

Thats very helpful - I've managed to cobble together a variety of house plans from the internet and old modules and magazines (found a "white dwarf" dating back to 1983 with a variety of houses and inn's!) and using a crude 350 gp / room rule x location factor (0,5 - 1,5) managed to get rough prices - including some that I know are out of reach without loans from 'helpful' merchants......

I agree with a few of the other posts about 'high' pricing compared to modern day, but I think I'll keep the worlds unfair class structure intact for now and save the social revolution for another campaign....

That should keep players off my back for a while, thanks for all the advice guys - hope other DM's found it useful too.

 

[Nightfall]

Well if they didn't like it, then they can go elsewhere!

 

[frankthedm]

Were I you, I'd have the players get a mortgage simply to have all those reoccurring fees covered. Besides, then you can screw with them by having their mortal enemy buy up their mortgage and evict them or apply legal pressures on them (no magic item creation in the city, reporting unlicensed craftsmen to the guilds, etc).

Remember, the players should want to keep the cities safe. A little bit of legal hassle here and there sounds fine, but layer it on too much and the players may wind up joining the next orc horde that come to sack the city.

I don’t think the DMG prices are unreasonable. The commoners don’t own squat and when the king gets told it costs 1000s of gold for magic items, he expects to get similar amounts for his land.

I could imagine the high GP costs cover the 'fees' and 'taxes' for obtaining such properties. When players can defend properties, they have a lot of income at their disposal. If they don’t have the cash, they can negotiate prices. And sometimes interested parties may offer really good deals.

The Curio Company is pleased to inform you that you have received a most generous offer in regards to the items of significant enchantment you wished to receive more than ‘the going rate’ for. The offer consists of a fully furnished mansion, with the only stipulation being your group takes residence in the mansion for no less than 5 years. The offer comes from the King himself so we strongly recommend you accept such a generousity with haste. The building and land rights alone are worth nearly 100,000 gold, A profit of over 50% beyond the market value of your Crown of Telepathy: 27,000 gp and +6 Cloak of Charisma: 36,000 gp.

 

[Zapak Vim]

since we are on the topic, I am reading a very good book at the moment

Urban life in the Middle Ages, 1000-1450 by Keith D. Lilley.
published by Palgrave, 2001 in New York
ISBN 033371248X (cloth) 0333712498 (pbk.)

its kinda academic in places but has lots of stuff I did not know, about property in medieval cities.

eg, you will have heard the term 'burgher' as a name of a respectable townsperson in a medieval setting. buts its proper meaning is quite intersting.
In a medieval town, often the the king or feudal lord still owned the land, but leased out plots (called Burgages) for a fairly low rent. the people who rented them were called Burghers and had various rights in the city. They could also sell on the plots or sublease them or build on them or what ever. But who ever owned them still had to pay a rent to the lord. In return the Burghers had various rights in the town, including taking part in the local government of the town. If you weren't a burgher, you dont get any rights. So you could own buildings and be quite rich, but you only got certain legal rights if you owned a burgage (the bit of land under the buildings).

A burgage was usually a long narrow bit of land with the narrow end facing the main street.
http://www.chippingnorton.net/Features/BURGAGE.htm

Zapak