C&C and HM = D&D?

[howandwhy99]

Troll finds Worm

 

[SWBaxter]

Is Castles & Crusades and Hackmaster, Dungeons & Dragons?

Legally, no. D&D is a trademarked brand name that applies only to a specific set of products. From a marketing standpoint, OTOH, they certainly are - both C&C and Hackmaster are aimed specifically at D&D players, either present or past. This distinguishes them from a game like Blue Rose, which while also based on some version of the D&D ruleset is aimed at a different audience.

 

[Melan]

"It is the spirit of the game, not the letter of the rules, that matters."

In spirit, both HM and C&C are D&D. In my eyes, they are more D&D than official D&D itself. As I noted in another thread, I don't consider D&D a brand: it is a playing style, a set of shared assumptions, a millieu and its inhabitants - and rules. HM, for example, is an almost exact copy of 1e/2e AD&D. To call it "not D&D" beyond the lack of the branding is preposterous.

YMMV, IMHO, OMGWTFBBQ and other acronyms may apply.

 

[Henry]

Is Castles & Crusades and Hackmaster, Dungeons & Dragons?

Quasqueton

They are spiritual heirs, yes. Next question?

 

[rogueattorney]

They are as much descendants of the OOP editions as 3e is. They just focus on different aspects of the OOP editions than 3e does. They don't have the legal right to the name, but to those who like the apect that C&C or Hackmaster focuses upon, they are as much 'D&D' as anything else.

R.A.

 

[Treebore]

They all definitely share one thing in common, the ability to pass the time having fun.

 

[MerricB]

There have been a number of versions of the game (editions, systems, whatever).

With some simplification, for present purposes, they can be broken down into:

(1.) OD&D (1974 version)
(2.) OD&D (1974) + Supplements (Greyhawk, Blackmoor, etc.)
(3.) Basic/Expert/Rules Cyclopedia D&D (sometimes incorrectly called 'OD&D')
(4.) 1E AD&D
(5.) 1E AD&D + Unearthed Arcana
(6.) 2E AD&D
(7.) 2E AD&D + Various 'Options' Books
(8.) 3E D&D
(9.) Hackmaster
(10.) Castles and Crusades

You missed:

(2a.) Basic D&D (J. Eric Holmes edition)
Which is based on OD&D, but is quite different in a number of areas, and is substantially different to (2b.)
(2b). Basic D&D (Moldvay edition) with Expert D&D
Which changed oD&D into a game quite distinct from AD&D.
(3). Basic D&D + supplements (Mentzer edition)
Built on Moldvay, changed a few things around, and expanded into many supplements.
(3a). Rules Cyclopedia D&D + Wrath of the Immortals


(8a). 3E Adventure Game
(8b). 3.5E D&D
(8c). 3.5E Basic Game

 

[Len]

Troll finds Worm

Shouldn't there be a dead horse in that picture too?

 

[Turanil]

OD&D(1974) is the only true game. All the other editions are just poor imitations of the real thing.

Who are you going to fool with that claim?! We all know that you converted to 3.5 and sold all your (obsolete) OD&D stuff. Ask Gez...

 

[Ratughoth]

All you have to do is look at a Hackmaster character sheet and see for yourself. It is practically an exact ( 95% ) copy of an AD&D 1E character sheet. You can learn a lot about a game by looking at the character sheets.