[C&C] Will there be a revised Player's book?

[gideon_thorne]

Possible - I'm sure you're in better communication with them - but the post Davis (or was it Steve?) made on my blog was pretty specific. Here's the text:

I read that reply.

I just know that circumstances can often change plans. Its certainly been my experience with working in the publishing industry.

Edit:

And I found out my initial statement is correct. (Just talked to Steve who is in Denver for anyone who wants to go see him at the Con' hes at)

The book wont be allowed to go out of print and is still dependent on it reaching that target # before it goes to reprint. GenCon is just a long estimate since right now its not always easy to predict how fast the first print run will sell out.

If the print run sells out to the # steve told me the 2nd printing will go out to print sooner and be available sooner.

 

[Mythmere1]

I read that reply.

I just know that circumstances can often change plans. Its certainly been my experience with working in the publishing industry.

I hear you on that, too.

 

[cleaverthepit]

regardless of sales the book is not going to print until it has had a going over, a very tight going over. All of the reveiws, both positive and negative, point to this as an issue time and again. Its my impression there would be far fewer complaints without these typos and crud. Then, the convos on C&C would revolve less and less around its shortcomings and move more into the positives. I mean, it comes up on almost every thread.

Steve and I are at loggerheads occasionally (well, quite often really, we are brothers) and this issue is no less problematic than most. There are several issues.

1: by not keeping the book in print it can die on the vine - and right now it is still a flourishing vine - big fear if it goes of market or becomes unavailable

2: edits need to be clear as we will dump a load of cash into this for a years supply

3: as mythmere noted this is the crisis of success. many companies go belly up when they move from small to medium. it is a cash flow issue, stock management issue and line development issue.

4: quite a number of other products in the hopper. by diverting cash into one project we risk a lot.

But even so, the edits are not done yet. that could take up to a month, then a month print time, then 2 weeks before it moves through the chain. minimum we are looking at 10 weeks.

Steve has picked a tipping point and I agree with it.

I am game for gencon so it will allow us to get the edits in and maintain our product development in other arenas.

Steve's concern is that it not become difficult to get and die on the vine

somewhere in between is where we will meet as we always do as it will not go until both of us agree. I feel a lot of, how shall we say, brotherly love going out the window in the next month another MacDonald's argument coming our way.

anyway, no final word yet but in steve and I's last discusion we set a goal of a gencon release (as originally slated last year) and just manage the supplies we have as best we can. If it moves faster than we can control, well, it will be earlier.

davis

 

[Mythmere1]

I had edited out the "crisis of success" part to avoid seeming to suggest a crisis. But yes, when you get your first smash hit is when you have to be careful, both to be ready for an unexpected cash flow fluctuation and also to maintain momentum.

 

[Nathal]

"this is the crisis of success..."

Oh, sweet catastrophe! May you find yourselves in more predicaments of that kind.

 

[Akrasia]

Given that the PHB is the core book of the game, I think that ensuring that hard copies are available should be TLG's TOP priority (assuming that M&T is now done). Everything should be focused on correcting the problems with the 1st printing, and making sure that the 2nd printing is ready to go in time to keep the books in the stores.

That is just my 2 cents -- but not having hard copies of the game for a few months is a very bad idea IMO.

 

[Treebore]

Akrasi,

Reading through what they have said it looks like hard copies are available just hard to get ahold of. Meaning that the retailers who either didn't order any copies to begin with (and finding out there is a demand) and those who ordered but didn't order enough, are now having to go straight to TLG to get them, because apparently the distributors don't have enough to re-stock anyone, all because demand was underestimated.


The only bad thing I see out of this is that there doesn't sound like there is much "shelf presence", meaning that unless someone hears about C&C, they aren't going to learn about it any other way. Of course word of mouth is considered to be one of, if not the, best ways to be advertised. But then you run into gamers who don't realize that if you are hearing about something and don't see it on the shelves, ask for it to be ordered.

So I see a lot of potential for lost fans in the meantime. Plus a fair number of people will be turned off by the errors, so they may wait until a reprint that fixes it. Or never bother to pick it up.

So TLG is still very much in a "high risk" period, and unfortunately do not have the financial deep pockets to fix the problems in the best way possible. So I am still concerned about how popular it will become, because this is a good alternative system that is easy, enjoyable, highly modifiable, etc.... But they say timing is everything for a reason. So I'll keep my fingers crossed for C&C's success.

I by no means expect this system to challenge WOTC's dominance, but I do want a level of success high enough to keep TLG in business with it. Because this appeals to me far more than D20, and I want it to remain available to me and anyone I convince to play it.

 

[Mythmere1]

I'm also really big on getting out the word to people when I'm talking to other gamers - C&C is an extraordinary game.

I suspect that Troll Lords doesn't actually enter the "high risk" period until they make this "year supply" order of the 2nd printing CCPHB. That's where they begin operating on the assumption that the game is going to fly on a bigger scale than their d20 products. From what I've seen, that risk looks like a smart one - but it's the first decision in the mode of weathering the "crisis of success."

The first print run wasn't necessarily conservative, but it clearly fell short of demand in a big way.

 

[Mythmere1]

Now would, in other words, be a bad time for Davis and Steve to have another epic argument in the local McDonalds ...

 

[Wingnut]

This is not the case at all...Impressions handles the distributor sales and shipping for TLG and about 40 other companies so we're right in the thick of it.

The PHB is hard to find and sold out in stores because the distributors and retailers are not buying enough to meet demand. This is a constant problem with game companies (save the top 10)...The distributors do not buy enough and the retailers don't order more than 1 or 2 to keep on their shelves at a given time. These stores don't want to take chances because so many games have a hard time selling...but when a hit comes around, they are caught off guard, BUT STILL only order 1 or 2. It's weird.

Best,
Aldo

The second printing will be out well before GenCon. Gencon, I think, is the target date for the CKG, at which time all the main books will be out.

I understand that it will contain the errata, although the rules errata are quite small. Most of the problems were with typos, etc. - I think the only rules omissions were which weapons were two-handed and the omission of a column about carrying capacity on an equipment table.

The PHB is close to being sold out, from what I can tell. There are probably still many copies in the distribution network, but supplies are running short in a lot of places. Stores have been buying directly from TLG, because several distributors are either out or failed to carry it in the first place, not knowing it would be a hit.