Calling all Wrestling Fans

[Dahak]

In what way do you believe it's being misused ?

That was sort of meant as a joke. Promo in the wrestling sense being an interview segment or an in-character running of the mouth as opposed to a promotional give-away.

I'm looking to include information on various types of rings, now that you bring this up.

What type of penalties might you suggest ? For instance, a -4 penalty for wrestling in a similar type (but with different dimensions), -6 for wrestling in a completly different type of ring ?

In the rules set I was writing, Ring Familiarity worked like an exotic weapon proficiency feat. You suffered a -4 to both shoot attack rolls and worked spot rolls (so did your opponent if you were carrying him in a work) if the attack/spot involved bumping (i.e. falling to the mat) or running the ropes. There was no penalty to a kick/punch style attack or spot.

The ring types I had defined were:
18x18 Hard Bump Ring (ala NWA, WCW, ECW and most indies)
20x20 Hard Bump Ring (WWE rings)
Luche Libre Ring (EMLL, etc)
Octagon/Shoot Fight Cage
Boxing Ring (fairly common outside of North America and Japan)

Doing some spots inside other kinds of rings could also potentially cause mishaps. Taking a hard bump on a Luche ring (which is designed for light impact spots) will very likely cause damage to both characters, and to the ring itself, for example

What I was working on was designed more to simulate the wrestling business from an exaggerated version of the worker's point of view, not so much a shoot, or what the marks see in the storylines.

 

[scott-fs]

Will attacking before the bell be handled? I don't think this one happens too often anymore, but could a crafty wrestler get an unwise one to fall for the "handshake" sucker attack?

It happens quite often, though it's usually before the theme music has stopped playing. I'd say with a combination of a successful "Distract" and "Hide" check, you can get the jump on your opponent.

How about a feat for old Undertaker types where they never submit? Pinned yes, knocked out yes, submission moves still wear them down but they never say uncle.

Choosing to submit is completly up to the player. A wrestler who drops below 0 recieves penalties to actions, but once you get to around -20 or so, it's pretty much over. If you have a good Concentration check, it can allow you to keep going by using it with the Recover action.

Could 'playing possum' be something a wise wrestler could do? Going prone to trick the opponent into attempting a high risk move like climbing the turnbuckle, then springing up and trapping them. Or the Ric Flair move where he falls on his knees and pleads for mercy, then cheap shots the opponent.

Definately.

The Irish Whip doesn't do any damage on its own but could it be used outside the ring to throw a guy back-first into a non-rebounding barricade, wall, etc? If so a distance limit (modified by the attacker's Strength?) might need to be set to figure out how far you can Irish Whip someone if the fight takes place in a wide open space.

That's definately another use to the Irish Whip. I'll make a note of it.

Back on the crossover thought again, if the basic moves don't need special training does that mean that any d20 character could try them without needing pro wrestler levels? The D&D grappling rules could really use some fleshing out. Clerics of Kord wrestling in the Olympic style would be cool too.

The basic moves are wrestling moves that all wrestlers train in when beccoming a wrestler. I'd suggest that any of the submission moves, require special training if you want to bring them into your D&D game (ie. Each submission move might be a Martial Weapon Proficiency, so fighters and other warriors automatically have them. Clerics of Kord in this case could be modified to allow them access to "Martial Weapon Proficiency: Submission Moves". Other characters would need to spend a feat to learn how to properly use an ankle lock, for example.

All the other basic moves are no problem.

 

[scott-fs]

That was sort of meant as a joke. Promo in the wrestling sense being an interview segment or an in-character running of the mouth as opposed to a promotional give-away.

Ah, I see. ;-)

The ring types I had defined were:
18x18 Hard Bump Ring (ala NWA, WCW, ECW and most indies)
20x20 Hard Bump Ring (WWE rings)
Luche Libre Ring (EMLL, etc)
Octagon/Shoot Fight Cage
Boxing Ring (fairly common outside of North America and Japan)

Do you know what the dimensions are of the Luche Libre Ring ? Octagon/Shoot Fight Cage ? Boxing Ring ?

Doing some spots inside other kinds of rings could also potentially cause mishaps. Taking a hard bump on a Luche ring (which is designed for light impact spots) will very likely cause damage to both characters, and to the ring itself, for example

Explain what you mean by a "hard bump" ? I'm trying to follow the example.

What I was working on was designed more to simulate the wrestling business from an exaggerated version of the worker's point of view, not so much a shoot, or what the marks see in the storylines.

I felt the most entertaining (atleast to the players) style of play was to assume that things were "real". It's the default assumption, and there is nothing stopping someone to play a more exaggerated version of the business. Different styles of play.

 

[Dahak]

Do you know what the dimensions are of the Luche Libre Ring ? Octagon/Shoot Fight Cage ? Boxing Ring ?

Lucha rings I've seen up close were the standard 18x18, but the ones on Mexican wrestling TV programs looked a tad smaller (perhaps 16x16?). The main difference comes not from the size so much as the give of the mat. A Lucha ring is supported by steel bars, and has virtually no padding.

I don't know the dimensions of the UFC cage or a regular Boxing ring, but I can safely say the dimensions matter even less here, because you can't run the ropes of a boxing ring (without making a complete fool of yourself anyway... ) and there are no ropes in an octagon.

Explain what you mean by a "hard bump" ? I'm trying to follow the example.

A bump in general is when someone gets "hit" and falls to the mat. A "hard" bump or more specifically a "flat back bump" is when a worker falls squarely on his back with hard impact. This combined with the ring mike creates the illusion that the opponent just smacked the hell out of him. Anyone who thinks wrestling is "fake" should really learn to bump.

In reference to a Lucha ring, if you hard bump it, you're very likely to break the board but not the steel beam underneath, and quite likely put your spine out of place. :O

 

[danltaylor]

I'm glad to hear that someone actually got this concept up and running. I myself was thinking of the very same thing awhile back. I thought the d20 System (way before the announcement of Modern d20) would be perfect for such a game. But, not having a ton of knowledge regarding wrestling entertainment and other projects taking off I let it slide. Congrats, and I look forward to seeing more.

 

[Allensh]

I think this is a great idea. I missed that WWF RPG that Whit Publications put out awhile back (anyone have a copy they want to trade for, say, a copy of Return to the Tomb of Horrors?),and I think this could be a lot of fun. I would dearly love to be a playtester on this, as I am a big fan of both the d20 system and wrestling.

Definitley play the matches as if they were "real", but allow for the wild cinematic stuff that goes on. (I love the thought of playing a Hell In A Cell match...).

I am REALLY looking forward to this.

Allen

 

[CerebralAssassin]

I liked the download quite a bit. I do have a question and a few ideas that I hadn't seen elsewhere.

How, in terms of game mechanics, will the prestige factor work. For instance if I had a circuit 5 wrestler who was really over and sent to circuit 4, would I be getting my rear kicked all over the place?

I like the circuit concept and think that naming each circuit might be good (or at least the top 3 i.e. circuit 1 (PPV) could change names each month to reflect a different PPV, circuit 2 (TV Major) could be given a show name, and circuit 3 could be like OVW in the WWE network).

It seems like wrestler lore could be used a la perform in the PHB.
With each rank you could either choose a new wrestler or choose to study a wrestler already chosen further. I like the idea of being able to reallocate the points at each level to reflect new feuds.

The only other suggestion I have is that perhaps a backstage political component could be added to reflect a wrestlers "stroke" wthin the company. Not exactly sure how to implement, but I think it could be an interesting idea.

Looking forward to seeing it evolve.

CerebralAssasin

 

[scott-fs]

I liked the download quite a bit. I do have a question and a few ideas that I hadn't seen elsewhere.

I'll see what I can do to answer them. I have a follow-up document planned for release some time next week. It'll cover things I didn't have time to cover in the original document.

How, in terms of game mechanics, will the prestige factor work. For instance if I had a circuit 5 wrestler who was really over and sent to circuit 4, would I be getting my rear kicked all over the place?

What do you mean by: "...was really over and sent to...". The circuits act as a protective mechanism to place equally experienced wrestlers against each other. Most wrestlers will follow the progression mentioned in the promo, while there will be some who gain popularity faster than they do experience, or vice-versa.

If you move up to circuit 4 as a 2nd level character, you'll be going up against other wrestlers level 4 to 6. Because of this, most circuit 5 wrestlers won't last long in circuit 4. The one situation where such a character may succeed is in a tag-team match.

I like the circuit concept and think that naming each circuit might be good (or at least the top 3 i.e. circuit 1 (PPV) could change names each month to reflect a different PPV, circuit 2 (TV Major) could be given a show name, and circuit 3 could be like OVW in the WWE network).

Including names as "story flavor" in addition to the circuit labels (circuit 1, circuit 2, etc.) can work.

For instance, in Circuit 3, there could be various "tours" named after what part of the country you compete in. Examples might include the West Coast tour, East Coast tour, Mid-West tour, Canadian tour. Wrestlers compete in various locations within their tour.

It seems like wrestler lore could be used a la perform in the PHB. With each rank you could either choose a new wrestler or choose to study a wrestler already chosen further. I like the idea of being able to reallocate the points at each level to reflect new feuds.

I haven't decided the final version of Wrestler Lore.

The only other suggestion I have is that perhaps a backstage political component could be added to reflect a wrestlers "stroke" wthin the company. Not exactly sure how to implement, but I think it could be an interesting idea.

I'll put it under advisement.

 

[CerebralAssassin]

What do you mean by: "...was really over and sent to...". The circuits act as a protective mechanism to place equally experienced wrestlers against each other. Most wrestlers will follow the progression mentioned in the promo, while there will be some who gain popularity faster than they do experience, or vice-versa.

If you move up to circuit 4 as a 2nd level character, you'll be going up against other wrestlers level 4 to 6. Because of this, most circuit 5 wrestlers won't last long in circuit 4. The one situation where such a character may succeed is in a tag-team match.

Your example answered my question perfectly. As for "...was really over and sent to..." I was assuming that all 5 circuits are linked and thus if a wrestler was really popular, he could be sent to a better circuit for more exposure by the management of the overall association (a la Jim Ross promoting a guy from OVW to Heat or Velocity matches in WWE because he has shown the ability to connect with fans).

Cerebral Assassin

 

[TroyXavier]

I am so looking forward to that. That game will rule.