Calling Dark Sun players

[megamania]

Just give defilers (say) about two extra spell slots for each spell level they can cast. They can choose to prepare the spells in advance, which means the plants will be destroyed at that time, or they can cast them spontaneously, like sorcerers, which means plants will be destroyed at the time of casting.

How would I balance that with the preservers? Balance is important to me.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

How would I balance that with the preservers? Balance is important to me.

Well, preservers don't leave tell-tale signs behind them that will make almost every thinking being want to kill them...

Sounds balanced to me. Defilers have to be very, very careful where they prepare or cast their spells, or they will soon be on the run again - or worse. Preservers can hide almost everywhere, and don't have any problems as long as they don't cast their spells within the sight of others.

Of course, a Defiler who lets loose with all he's got is very, very scary. But Defilers are supposed to be scary - and the power of Defiling tempting to Preservers...

If this is too much, you might cut the bonus to one extra spell per level. This still gives Defilers an edge when it comes to spellcasting, but it isn't as overwhelming...

 

[megamania]

I'll give that a try. Thanx

 

[Gallowglass]

THE thing about 3e is balance. Everything is balanced. The way the PCs were being treated made me question how to keep the game balanced. As they have it written, Characters are getting +2 to +8 on abilities along with several other extra abilities. If you use a creature from any the standard D20 books, they will prove less of a challenge.
What I have done is try to meet the two versions in the middle. I use standard D20 abilities and powers but at creation, each PC gets a Racial Feat. It empowers the PC a bit without overdoing it. For the creatures, if they are not already psionic then I give them a % chance of having low level psionics that make sence for them.

It's not perfect, but it keeps a bit of balance while maintaining the unique Darksun Feel. The biggest problem I was having was dealing with magic when it was Sorcerer-Wizard-Preserver-Defiler. I started with if you were a Sorcerer then you had to be a defiler. I thought it made sense but had to change it to keep players happy (it is a game ment to be fun afterall).

Shadowlight- have you tried to use the PCs as listed there combating a standard creature from the MM? I'm curious if they balanced out or not.

I would strongly suggest you have a look at the draft play-test documents for DS 3e at Athas.org. The team writing the conversion have worked very hard to produce something that captures the classic Dark Sun feel (original set / Prism Pentad) whilst allowing the maximum utility to core D&D 3e material, so balance has been prominent in their thinking. How well they have succeeded so far is another question, but that's why they have gone to an open play test at this stage.

 

[Alzrius]

Anyone tried to creat a Dragon-King? (40 mininum levels!) Thankyou

While I'm not running a Dark Sun campaign currently, I've given quite a bit of thought to how advanced beings would probably work.

Dragons and Avangions would both be 10 level PrCs (as would the PrC allowing an elemental cleric to become an elemental).

The requirements to become either should probably include, respectively, the ability to use 9th level psionic powers and 9th level (defiler) wizard spells, and the ability to use 9th level psionic powers and 9th level (preserver) wizard spells. There should probably be alignment requirements also (good for Avangion, and evil for Dragon, though if you're working off of the old Dragon Kings book, make neutral an option for Dragons also), as well as racial requirements (probably human for both, though again, working strictly from Dragon Kings, add half-elves also for Dragons). Note that under this option they could be as low as 18th level in each, meaning its minimum 36th level before they can start metamorphosizing. Thus, you may want to tack on another requirement, or alter the ones I mentioned, to make them 20th level in each class for a level 40 minimum before they start to change. There should also be a "Special" requirement to begin taking levels in the PrC. What it is may vary, but basically it would have to get around the fact that I see the Defiler Metamorphosis and Preserver Metamorphosis spells as being epic level spells/psionics, but only characters who are already dragons or avangions (other than Rajaat) can cast epic level spells/psionics (see below for more on this). Probably the best way to do that is to rule that the character needs to use the Dark Lens, and that it can cast either of those spells on characters that meet the rest of the prerequisites (since the novels and such suggest it was what was used to make the original Dragon Kings). This leads to some other problems (such as how Oronis stopped changing into a dragon and instead started to become an avangion, and how he helped those other two who were later killed become avangions...and how it says in Defilers and Preservers that he invented the Preserver Metamorphosis spell), but I won't address those problems here.

In order to give the proper "feel" for how powerful these beings are, I'd make the campaign work with the following conditions:

- Psionics and magic would use the "Psionics are Different" option in the PsiHB normally.

- Only dragons or avangions can use Epic spells\psionics, with the feat that grants this only being open to them (in fact, I'd give it to them for free when they got their first level in dragon/avangion, making it a class-ability or sorts). Other characters level 21+ could have powers above 9th level, but only in regards to upping lower-level spells/powers (i.e. Maximizing an Energy Drain, etc., but none of the Epic spells in the ELH).

- Epic spells/psionics used by dragons and avangions in Dark Sun are supposed to be a blend of psionics and sorcery. Given that, for creating those Epic spells/psionics, I would allow the character to add his wizard level, psion level, and his dragon/avangion level together in all places where spellcaster/psionic-user level is a factor creating the Epic spell/psionic power. Also, these powers would not use the Psionics are Different option, being equally affected by spells or psionics since they are composed of both (and defiler Epic spells/psionics then still cause defiling damage, being part magical). These options make those powers seem to be truly a blend of psionics and sorcery.

I'd also seriously alter the requirements for gaining each level in those prestige classes, but thats another thread.

 

[megamania]

In my homebrew I have it as 20/20 with the locker being the 23 ranks of Know: Aranane and 23 ranks in Know: Psionics. Due to the expensive level development, they ignore the 21st level to use Epic levels BUT the only epic level they get is the Metamorphosis spell.

To make matters worse for character creation of these powerful NPCs- most of them were powerful and highly skilled military leaders also. Most of my Dragons are 55 levels with levels of Fighter mixed in.

 

[KingOfChaos]

I love Dark Sun. I own most of the 2E adventures and resource books and 99% of the novels. It was such a gritty setting..harsh..unyeilding..and you were actually scared for your character's life most of the time. If you weren't dying of thirst or hunger, you had a Tembo biting on your ass or a pack of Thri-kreen trying to kill the party elf for a midnight snack

 

[KingOfChaos]

In my homebrew I have it as 20/20 with the locker being the 23 ranks of Know: Aranane and 23 ranks in Know: Psionics. Due to the expensive level development, they ignore the 21st level to use Epic levels BUT the only epic level they get is the Metamorphosis spell.

Actually, most Psionic Enchantments would be considered Epic Level Spells..so they would have more than just one epic level spells normally.

I would also require a Dragonking PrC to have a requirement of Spellcraft and Psicraft at 23 ranks.