Campaign Help

[fireinthedust]

Clone Wars-era game in progress, and I'm working out some elements for a group who, like myself, have never played Saga.

I'm setting this sucker during the end of the Clone Wars... right at the end, around the time of Revenge of the Sith, and hopefully extending beyond that to the Jedi Purge and the Dark Times/Rise of the Empire.

The PCs are going to be the Command crew/special unit of a Republic Cruiser, under the command of a Ram Kota-style Jedi Master and General. They'll be the ones who go down to the planet and/or dog fight in space, and whatever else is needed for the ship. Jedi, or non-Jedi, player preference. All of them are part of the Company (like Rogue squadron).

I get the feeling SAGA runs differently than D&D, and the starting stats in the attributes section is low. I don't know at what level PCs should start for this, whether level 1 is too low (as per Wizards in 3e), what the game's "sweet spot" is.
I also want to include the Cybernetics rules from d20 Future (with tweaks) and I'll be adding special rules about using clone troopers to avoid death (ie: they can jump in front of a laser blast or what have you, rather than the PC dying; that sort of thing).


The main phases will be:

1) starter/intro mission, to introduce and enjoy the Clone Wars

2) Jedi Purge: the clones turn on the crew, and the PCs deal with it. They then get to respond to the crisis: the Empire has outlawed the Jedi!

3) Dealing with it: what do they do, with a ship that's on the run, in need of repair, in a galaxy that hates them? Here (or about here) the General is going to get killed (ie: Force Unleashed style?) while the PCs are on a mission, leaving them in charge of a damaged ship.

Now, the major historic events will be happening, but I'll leave it up to the party what they do about all this. Should be interesting.


Any ideas for what to do?

 

[ValhallaGH]

In my experience, Saga's sweet spot kicks in around level 3 and lasts until about level 13. By level 3 you have enough feats and talents to actually represent your character concept; also, your defenses are high enough that you're not auto-beaten by force powers. By level 14, most force wizards (barring multiple Education destinies) find themselves unable to really be effective against their foes; further, multi-class or 3/4 BAB characters are falling enough behind that they're having trouble hitting targets of about their level.

One thing in Saga's favor: anyone playing a multi-class build (Han Solo springs to mind) can be several levels above the other characters and few players will notice. The higher level guys will have more options (feats, talents, better skills) but barring optimal multi-classing they will have the same or worse combat ability (except defenses). So a multi-level party can work pretty danged well in Saga.


For this campaign, you may want to start at first level and just give everyone a "Clone War Veteran" package. This would include training in the skills: Endurance, Pilot, and Survival (possibly including Skill Focuses for characters that were already trained); 1 extra combat or vehicle feat; assorted issued gear (armor, weapons, survival and sensor gear, etc.).
The idea being that they've actually been cross-trained and equipped to do the job they're being ordered to do without the hassle of starting everyone above first level (and requiring multi-classing to get the skills they need to do their jobs).

Good luck.

 

[delericho]

I'm setting this sucker during the end of the Clone Wars... right at the end, around the time of Revenge of the Sith, and hopefully extending beyond that to the Jedi Purge and the Dark Times/Rise of the Empire.

I've recently finished running a very similar campaign myself - the very first thing that happened was that Order 66 was given, and suddenly the PCs had to shoot their way out of the Star Destroyer that had been their home until then (in the backstory).

The PCs are going to be the Command crew/special unit of a Republic Cruiser, under the command of a Ram Kota-style Jedi Master and General. They'll be the ones who go down to the planet and/or dog fight in space, and whatever else is needed for the ship. Jedi, or non-Jedi, player preference. All of them are part of the Company (like Rogue squadron).

That works well. I would strongly recommend asking them to tell you up-front whether they will include Jedi or not. The game can work really well either way, but it will likely be a very different campaign depending on this decision, so getting an answer up-front will save you about 50% of your prep.

I get the feeling SAGA runs differently than D&D,

Somewhat. Hit points start higher, but don't seem to advance as quickly. But damage from blasters and the like is much higher.

I've found it's a game that rewards fast and loose play, which suits me just fine.

whether level 1 is too low (as per Wizards in 3e), what the game's "sweet spot" is.

We started at level 2, which seemed to work okay. Still, the characters really started to 'feel' Star Wars around level 4 or 5. The campaign ended about level 8, but the game didn't really show any signs of having problems at that level.

(The Jedi seemed a bit over-powered, to be honest. But that might just be Roger' uncanny knack of instinctively finding all the weak spots in any game system. Still, use the errata - the Force powers are somewhat too good as written.)

1) starter/intro mission, to introduce and enjoy the Clone Wars

In hindsight, I think I would have benefitted from running a couple of adventures here, and perhaps more than a single intro mission. In my campaign, there was a lot of play with the commander of the Star Destroyer that had housed the PCs previously, and also the Clone Commander of their old squad, and running through those 'backstory' adventures would have helped to solidify those characters.

2) Jedi Purge: the clones turn on the crew, and the PCs deal with it. They then get to respond to the crisis: the Empire has outlawed the Jedi!

3) Dealing with it: what do they do, with a ship that's on the run, in need of repair, in a galaxy that hates them?

That all sounds good.

Any ideas for what to do?

Steal liberally from Battlestar Galactica, Babylon 5 and Firefly?

If they're going to be in command of a damaged ship, then I would start with a session or two dealing with them evading the immediate pursuit - Imperials at every turn, the locals are radically pro-Empire, and things are a real problem. Then, as the horrors of Imperial rule dawn on people, and the Empire becomes that bit more complacent, ease up on that. Then, have them deal with sabotage, traitors on board, and that sort of thing. And then, the repair situation of the ship becomes critical (maybe the hyperdrive burns out in the middle of nowhere, and they have to take a shuttle to go get desperately needed parts?).

That would be the 'first phase' of the campaign.

For the 'second phase', I would pick out some of the most interesting/hateful NPCs from the "Clone Wars" bit of the campaign, and have that start to impact directly on the PCs. Perhaps an old rival has made it his mission to bring them in, and is hunting down their friends and loved ones to draw them out? Perhaps a planet they helped before has now fallen under martial law, and must be liberated? Perhaps an old clone commander has refused an order and been sentenced to death, and it is their job to rescue him.

And then, for the 'third phase', I would build towards a big military climax in the Star Wars style - the PCs must draw on every ally, every resource, and the full force of their rag-tag armada of ships to destroy the Empire's new superweapon/research facility/whatever. However, I wouldn't do more than pencil in a few thoughts here for the time being - I usually let things take shape as the campaign progresses and it becomes clear just what ideas the players are biting on.

 

[fireinthedust]

VallhallaGH: Thanks! I think MC may happen as some members are regular attendees, while others miss games and therefore XP (I'm positively reinforcing attendance with XP, as whoever shows up gets it).


My worry is what to do about the Star Destroyer we've got. Is it too much equipment for a party? I mean, adventures could be like Star Trek, as they have a whole ship to work with. That could be a positive thing. Unfortunately it could also mean tracking a lot of the ship and crew's stuff, which could be a pain. I'm used to... well, being a stingy DM when I can, so the players think without resorting to an arsenal of magic items.
That said, I can probably train them away from it by having Imperial forces who are better armed show up when they're being a pain; and they'll eventually have to re-fuel. These are adventure hooks, not campaign-breakers. Like Battlestar Galactica!

I'm playing with stats, and I made a 1st level Jedi. I've decided that PC stats should be 16 15 14 13 12 10, before species/levels.


Force Wizards: what is it that stops them from working at level 14?

BAB: with MC and 3/4 bab classes... what if I did a 4e and said BAB was 1/2 level + STR/Dex (or Cha for Force powers) for all classes?
Or maybe just give out either an extra level or an extra Weapon Expertise feat (or both) to make them only 1 or 2 behind?

Then again, considering the resources they'll have, maybe lower BAB isn't a big problem? I mean, other than the odd BBEG or Sith they run into, I could likely keep most stormtroopers limited in level. And make skills and smart use of equipment more important!

 

[ValhallaGH]

VallhallaGH: Thanks!

You're welcome.

I think MC may happen as some members are regular attendees, while others miss games and therefore XP (I'm positively reinforcing attendance with XP, as whoever shows up gets it).

Multi-class should happen. Among other things, it's the only way to expand your class skill list (and therefore the list of skills you can take Skill Training in).

Force Wizards: what is it that stops them from working at level 14?

The same thing that messes up low BAB characters: Defenses increase faster than their ability to hit those defenses (defenses increase +1 / level, Skills [UtF included] increase +1 / 2 levels, lesser BAB increases +3 / 4 levels or worse if you multi-class multiple 3/4 BAB classes).
At level 14, minimum defenses (before Class, Ability, and Equipment bonuses) are 24. Most defenses are around 30. Most Force Wizards will be on a +21 or so (slowing down but still awesome), while a Dex 12 Noble will be on a +11 to hit, and a Dex 16 Noble 6 / Scoundrel 3 / Ace Pilot 5 will be on a +12 to hit.

The way skills (especially UtF) work is that you are extremely front-loaded (+5 training, +5 focus, ~+3 ability = +13 at first level) but your progression is slow, eventually being matched or out-stripped by defenses (+16 level, +4 class bonus, +4 ability = 34 Defense vs. +18 UtF = +5 training, +5 Focus, +8 1/2 level, +5 ability). Always excepting the Education Destiny and it's +5 untyped bonus to a single skill.
Force Wizards are mean, and can compete at all levels, but in the upper tier they aren't nearly as devastating. Which I'm fine with.
The problem is that "secondary combat" characters drop off to "non-combat" characters despite having maintained their progressions. Take a look at Han Solo in the core book; he can barely hit himself, let alone Boba Fett.

My worry is what to do about the Star Destroyer we've got. Is it too much equipment for a party?

Depends upon your players. I've known groups that I would give a Death Star to because they wouldn't rely upon it. And I've known players that giving their character three sticks and a rock is too much.
As far as running it goes, give them a squad / platoon / company of troopers to work with, and then make sure they know that that is it. Those are all the troops they'll get to play with, when not driving the boat, until they get back to base for a major refit. The Republic (Empire) has insane amounts of resources but even it has a) limited resources, b) very limited resources in any single location, c) a system that favors efficiency of action.
A side benefit is that you can actually work up backgrounds, names, personalities, and such for a small chunk of the crew and be done with it. Sure there are tens of thousands of crew but the players don't interact with them, they interact with their 10/50/100 trooper unit and the other 12 people in the command crew.
Bonus, the troopers are clones and will be very similar in large part.
Bonus two, it's one thing to sacrifice 'random trooper' to save yourself, it's a whole other thing to sacrifice B-115 "Bill", the guy that shot that Droidekka before it could smash your skull, to save yourself.

I'm playing with stats, and I made a 1st level Jedi. I've decided that PC stats should be 16 15 14 13 12 10, before species/levels.

Sounds good to me.

BAB: with MC and 3/4 bab classes... what if I did a 4e and said BAB was 1/2 level + STR/Dex (or Cha for Force powers) for all classes?
Or maybe just give out either an extra level or an extra Weapon Expertise feat (or both) to make them only 1 or 2 behind?

If you're going to eliminate BAB, I'd go the other direction with it. Everyone gets +level to attacks, separating BAB from combat ability. Proficiency still negates the -5 penalty, stats still add. This means the combat classes rely upon their class feature (talents and feats) to kick butt, not their BAB because everyone is the same in that regard. And leave the +1/2 level to damage rolls.
Then again, it's not really a problem until level 13 or 14.

I could likely keep most stormtroopers limited in level.

Yeah, stormtroopers, always allowing for exceptions, should pretty much just be at a certain level. If you want to differentiate you can have three Trooper stat blocks: Green, Seasoned, Veteran that would be something like Non-Heroic 4 / Soldier 1, Non-Heroic 4 / Soldier 3, Non-Heroic 4 / Soldier 3 / Scout 3. (Clone Troopers are pretty dang impressive, putting the Storm Troopers of a later era to shame.)
Simpler book-keeping, less build-work for you, and you can even mix it up in a single encounter to surprise your players.

Good luck.

 

[fireinthedust]

In hindsight, I think I would have benefitted from running a couple of adventures here, and perhaps more than a single intro mission. In my campaign, there was a lot of play with the commander of the Star Destroyer that had housed the PCs previously, and also the Clone Commander of their old squad, and running through those 'backstory' adventures would have helped to solidify those characters.

My thinking exactly. Also, it allows me to set the scene and develop rivals, or let the PCs set up their own problems when the Empire takes over. "let's take those battle droids and set them up for the Republic" becomes "dang, the Empire has all our droids!"