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Campaign setting recommendations

The FR material is very well done, but you'll never catch me running a game in that setting, unless I have no players who have ever read one of the novels. There is TOO MUCH cannon to allow much DM freedom, IMO.

Kalamar is excellent. The books have high production values, the DM screen is the best ever, the Atlas is outstanding. Every single product Kenzer has put out for KoK is useful and filled with ideas. I feel like I'm babbling here, but I really don't have words to tell you how good I think this setting is. I haven't seen the monster book yet. Planning on buying it at GenCon this weekend, if the Kenzer booth is selling it.
 

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Innocent Bystander said:
Other than the Campaign Setting and DM Screen (and possibly Players) are there any other Supplements you would recommend picking up.

The Atlas, if that's your thing. If you are going to use humanoids, pick up Strength & Honor: The Mighty Hobgoblins of Tellene.
 


Of the "standard" settings, I think Kalamar is by far the best. By standard, I mean without a twist, per se: classic D&D-style settings. It kinda comes across to me as "Greyhawk, but with much better verissimilitude."

All this talk of settings lately has about prompted me to start a new thread, though -- is there a "generational" attribute to settings? First generation "classic" style settings, like Greyhawk, FR, KoK, and second generation "twist" settings like Dark Sun, Ravenloft, Midnight, Iron Kingdoms, etc.? Or is that just my imagination?
 

A quick glance at the maps for the two worlds is enough to tell me which one to choose.

The FR map makes no sense. Mountains, forests, deserts, rivers, and swamps are in places they could not be without the use of constant year round high magic to keep them there.

Kalamar's mountains, forests, deserts, rivers, and swamps are all where they should be when you consider how plate tectonics works and how humidity and wind patterns form around mountain chains and continents.

The sad thing is that it only takes the most basic layman's understanding of these fields to get this. The kind you can learn in reading a single paragragh or two on geology.

Mountains form when volcanos go off or plates collide. Wind rushes along magnetic patterns shaped by heat from position to the sun - so it kinds matches with the seasons and has an east or west consistant drift. Humidity builds where moisture gets trapped by elevation after being carried by the winds - often giving dry regions on one side and wet on the other.


Now shift to cultures, and you see the same problems.

The cultures in FR are thrown down in a random mish-mash and make no sense when coupled with resources, logical trade patterns, and societal drift from emigration over time and the results of things like tribal merging and warfare. There is no pattern to any of it.

Kalamar starts with a group of four distinct super-cultures (no that's not a typo, it's four in the early history), and shows how they have migrated across the globe. Where they have come into contact you get cultures that are shaped by how this contact turned out and what resources were available in the areas they met. There is also consideration for how they were shaped by the non humans they met there, and how those non humans where shaped by them.

As a result every culture shows what seems to be a natural consistant evolution and seems to fit into it's region and alongside it's neighbors.


When we move on to NPCs we see that FR is littered with high level NPCs that can answer any plot you throw at your PCs, so you have to answer why they don't.

In Kalamar nobody's epic level, and few are even mid to high level. There are no iconic NPCs, becoming the spot light is reserved for your campaign. In line with this, there is no meta plot. The Kalamar timeline is frozen in place, so individual DMs can unfreeze it and move it forward as they wish. No novel will rewrite the world on you in some future update that you need to account for in order to buy future products.


Both worlds are littered with adventure ideas. In Kalamar they fill out almost every page of text and tied into the world history, cultural tensions, legends, and so on. Conflicts that shape these ideas are based on elements of 'human nature' - political, social, sexual, ethnic, resource, and economic tensions.

In FR they are tied in places, and kewl in others. Often they are wrapped in cosmic forces that make their resolution something impossible for all but high level characters. Some of those in the core books have already been solved by novels or later suppliments - in effect taken away from DMs who wish to keep 'product current'. The conflicts that shape the ideas here are usually driven by alignment, metagame concerns, conflicts between iconic NPCs and or deities, and novels written in the setting.

On magic, Kalamar is scalable - it makes no statements on the issue but assumes the standard ruleset and power levels. A DM can scale it to be high or low magic.

In FR there is an assumption of frequent and powerful magics nearly everywhere. It is tightly scripted into the setting and removing it will require a lot of work for a DM who wishes to continue using further FR resources beyond the initial book. Even the use of the initial book will require a lot of work if you desire any magic setting other than the frequent and power one assumed within it.


Where Kalamar loses out to FR is in presentation. The FR books look better. They have dynamic color graphic design with top notch illustrators. The writing is better paced for short burst reading - making it much easier to digest. And the design team and publisher have a lot more brand recognition to them.
 
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Great summary, arc. That's pretty much my exact position on the two settings relative to each other. With Greyhawk coming in somewhere between the two.
 

Arcady, what do you think of the world of Krynn (Dragonlance) as a setting? I'm interested in seeing you break it down like you have the Realms and Kalamar.
 

Mucknuggle said:
Arcady, what do you think of the world of Krynn (Dragonlance) as a setting? I'm interested in seeing you break it down like you have the Realms and Kalamar.
I lack sufficient familiarity.

I stopped paying attention to Dragonlance way back in the 80s when I realized it was based around a conflict driven by alignment and scripted by the novels. The metaplot seemed so strong that it would be nearly impossible to acually use the world. It was also a poorly written Dragonlance novel that near the end of the 80s dragged out so far for me that I put it down and felt unable to read fiction until late 95... That part of my mind had simply been sucked dry.

So half my reasons for disliking the setting are rational, but they are wrapped in a second half that is anything but rational.

Besides, this thread is about Kalamar vs. FR. Mention of any other setting is in my opinion off topic.
 
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If I could rebut...

The FR map makes no sense. Mountains, forests, deserts, rivers, and swamps are in places they could not be without the use of constant year round high magic to keep them there.

Wrong. The FRCS explains in a very cool story exactly why there is a desert where there shouldn’t be (Anauroch), and in the CS book there is a pretty detailed regional weather table.

The cultures in FR are thrown down in a random mish-mash and make no sense when coupled with resources, logical trade patterns, and societal drift from emigration over time and the results of things like tribal merging and warfare. There is no pattern to any of it.

There's a pretty detailed trade map in the CS not to mention culture migration etc. is explained in great detail. Seldom do trade routes or migration ever make "sense".

When we move on to NPCs we see that FR is littered with high level NPCs that can answer any plot you throw at your PCs, so you have to answer why they don't.

Define "littered" or did you accidentally combine the words little and red? :) And no the NPC's do not have to be explained away, they are what you make of them. Again.

In FR they are tied in places, and kewl in others. Often they are wrapped in cosmic forces that make their resolution something impossible for all but high level characters. The conflicts that shape the ideas here are usually driven by alignment, metagame concerns, conflicts between iconic NPCs and or deities, and novels written in the setting.

You know what? Brace yourself; there are some Kalamar books that are rumored to be in the works. Personally I can't wait.

On magic, Kalamar is scalable - it makes no statements on the issue but assumes the standard ruleset and power levels. A DM can scale it to be high or low magic.

Any setting is easily scaleable to whatever level of magic you want. This particular line of reasoning has been shut down time and time again. But, keep going with it if you must.

Where Kalamar loses out to FR is in presentation. The FR books look better. They have dynamic color graphic design with top notch illustrators. The writing is better paced for short burst reading - making it much easier to digest. And the design team and publisher have a lot more brand recognition to them.

Yes, they have more money to spend to make the books look pretty, but the stellar quality is what makes them outstanding. But the Kalamar staff is full of talent and most of their books are very well done. I personally can't wait to get Dangerous Denizens and I have the Villain Design Handbook and use it extensively. I hope the FR staff was paying attention when Kenzer released their Atlas, that is how it should be done. As usual when you try to pit on setting against another there is no winner or loser, both settings are equally good.

All in all a nice compare and contrast but filled with the usual broad overstatements and total inaccuracies.

Go read the FRCS from front to back at least twice and come see me when you’re worthy. :)

Oh and I have the KOK CS too. ;)
 

That's bad news, but I have a similar experience with a horrible novel. The Fires of heaven by Robert Jordan is by far the worst piece of fiction that I have read in my entire life and has ruined my enjoyment of his series, The Wheel of Time. It was so bad that I read it a couple of pages a month only when I took the bus to go somewhere and thus ended up finishing it over a year after having started it.

I will agree with you when you say that Dragonlance is very metaplot driven, but now this is the old DL. The soon to be released DL Campaign Setting is set a couple decades after the latest major metaplot novels, the War of Souls and thus the PCs can once again be the heroes of the world. There are no longer any Heroes of the Lance or other super famous people of legend.

As for the Realms, I feel that you've already said most of what I think of it. As for Kalamar, haven't read much of it, but it does look very interesting.
 

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