Mystery Man
First Post
arcady said:
And much of what you've stated has done little to impress me. It's mostly just the same unoriginal regurgitated crap thats been flying around.
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And much of what you've stated has done little to impress me. It's mostly just the same unoriginal regurgitated crap thats been flying around.
They don't always, apparently...I hear that the novels Halaster went sane and good before the FRCS, but he's still in the far more useful and fun for gamers "evil insane archmage of Undermountain" mode in the FRCS...maybe that's simply due to it not making it into the FRCS in time, but I don't think so.
As far as the FR metaplot goes, well, you can always go back in time to a point where whatever metaplotty thing you don't like hasn't happened yet.
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Desdichado
Hero
I hope some of these posts are in response to arcady and not me, as I certainly haven't been making broad, ignorant generalizations; I've been "railing" specifically against a comment on the first page that said FRCS has the best, most realistic cultural tapestry since Middle-earth. Let me recap:
I said this isn't true; FRCS was built by committee over the course of many years, and they've mostly just added "the Mongols", "the Egyptians", later "the Mayans/Aztecs" etc. under different names and called it good. I also concede that to many gamers, this probably isn't important, but clearly to me it is. I may not be a FR sage, but I do have the 3e setting, and I've read a handful of novels, and I've played in the setting now and again. I hope I'm familiar enough with the setting to make this claim. Certainly even FR supporters will tend to say that it's true.
Later it was said that Kalamar was built the same way, but I completely disagree. Kalamar was built specifically to be a historically consistent and "sound" setting, and I think they've been relatively successful at it.
And, despite the fact that the original poster has made his decision, why let the thread die? It's an interesting discussion.
Do I think FR is a bad setting? No, not really -- but it's a setting that's obviously a game setting, and that's really where it does reasoably well. Do I borrow stuff from the Realms? All the time. Will I ever want to DM a Realms game? Absolutely not. The problems I have with the setting are pretty fundamental and it doesn't cater to my tastes much at all.
I said this isn't true; FRCS was built by committee over the course of many years, and they've mostly just added "the Mongols", "the Egyptians", later "the Mayans/Aztecs" etc. under different names and called it good. I also concede that to many gamers, this probably isn't important, but clearly to me it is. I may not be a FR sage, but I do have the 3e setting, and I've read a handful of novels, and I've played in the setting now and again. I hope I'm familiar enough with the setting to make this claim. Certainly even FR supporters will tend to say that it's true.
Later it was said that Kalamar was built the same way, but I completely disagree. Kalamar was built specifically to be a historically consistent and "sound" setting, and I think they've been relatively successful at it.
And, despite the fact that the original poster has made his decision, why let the thread die? It's an interesting discussion.
Do I think FR is a bad setting? No, not really -- but it's a setting that's obviously a game setting, and that's really where it does reasoably well. Do I borrow stuff from the Realms? All the time. Will I ever want to DM a Realms game? Absolutely not. The problems I have with the setting are pretty fundamental and it doesn't cater to my tastes much at all.
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Enceladus
First Post
Many nations in Kalamar mirror our own. It's actually debated over on the KoK boards which nation fits closest to a nation here on our earth.
I've had my (some huge) differences with the setting and have changed them to fit my style. Same with the Realms.
I also don't think its as "historically consistent" as you would suggest but thats niether here, nor there just a difference in opinion. It's lacking in many areas but its getting better, a lot of holes are getting plugged. Denizen's helped tremendously, (still trying to get my old lady to part with the checkbook) from what I've been able to drool over at my FLGS.
They've got a ways to go but they'll get there. I'm thinking (and this is just pure flibbldeepoop on my part), they'll advance the timeline to keep the setting from stagnating once they've exhausted all other avenues. Personally I won't mind a bit.
Someone can't have their own opinion?
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johnsemlak
First Post
Are there plans for a 3.5 KoK DMs Screen?
Mystery Man said:
Here is what I have done:
First I cut way down on magic items. I go for a world with few (but also often powerful) magic items, where all magic items have a history. No magic shops. No wizards advertising for custom items. No temples selling potions, or even giving bulk discounts. Most people use either mundane gear, masterwork items, or buff themselves and allies with spells.
Second, less treasure. There are no orc tribes possessing tons of gold, no bandits amassing a fortune just ripe for the picking. Not many tombs filled with gold. People pay less for "adventuring services" as well. Having 1000 gold from pure loot at level 10 is pretty good for an adventurer. On the other hand, the skills and abilities of the PCs support a pretty or even very good life, be it the bard entertaining, the swashbuckler gambling, the paladin supported by her church (and being the fiancée of a very rich noble), the rogue dealing in information and the elf bounty hunting. The adventures and heroic deeds of the PCs also do not net them plain gold, but titles and status, which improve their lot in life far more than a flat sum (and which do not lead to inflation and gold-rush adventurer economics) Basically, the PCs don't have to care about money to live, anything they loot can be used for their pet projects.
Less spellcasters as a whole. There are no dozens of high-level wizards tending bars. No legions of high-level clerics polishing idols and statues in every temple. I don't always use the stats from the FRCS for the existing high level spellcasters, and usually do not define their levels. Elminster is a sage, pretty sure a capable wizard, but nothing past that is known for sure. The tales always get exagerated anyway. As long as no one needs him to cast Elminster can be a level 5 wizard for all I care.
Certain spells are banned, others are almost nonexistent. Teleport and Teleport without error and all the instant relocation spells with a greater range than Dimension Door are only available to NPC-mages that take a prestige class like the wayfarer from T&B, but without spell progression. People in need of a fast transport can either look for such a mage - and hope they have enough money or services to compensate his time should they arrive at convincing him to aid them - or they can look for ancient, semi-reliable portals scattered among ruins and the like.
Resurrection and similar spells are rare. Dead usually is dead. Harm is banned. Haste is banned. Divine Power just gives you 18 strength, nothing more. Persistent spell does not exist. Improved Invisibility and Fly are very rare. People do not usually cast Polymorph Other on allies as there are side effects. There are other spells banned as well - anything that results in combats that are basically dogfights between stealth-fighters on afterburner, or nuclear exchanges between superpowers (i.e. hasted invisible flying characters battling each other in the 1.5 rounds until the first save is failed against the save or die spell waves.)
The societies of the realms are a lot more grim than the FRCS suggests. Peasants don't live a good life, nobility means a lot or all in most countries. The dales are modelled after the medieval swiss, a bunch of rather backward peasants good at fighting, sought after as mercenaries. Cormyr is a centralized monarchy modelled after France. South of Baldur's Gate and Cormyr slavery is the norm. Death or enslavement is a common punishment for many crimes in almost all civilized countries. True good states are very rare - most leaders are neutral, having to compromise their morals for politics. The true power, money, lies with the (noble) landholders, or with merchant companies or houses, not with some eccentric mage living in an out of the way tower.
Racism and to a lesser degree sexism run rampant.
Elves have no second wind, they are a people rooted in traditions, often unable to cope with the rapidly advancing humans. Elven magic is on the verge of becoming outdated compared to human-driven magic research. In some countries, namely Halrua, with the red wizards close behind, the magic knowledge available to humans has mainly surpassed elven traditions due to 3000 years of research driven by humans zeal for progress. Elves generally look down on humans, but with far less reason than 1000 or even 200 years before. Stuck between the chaotic, carefree attitude of eternal children, and the stiffling taditions of long-lived beings that hamper progress they have not much to look forward to. The elven items - most very old - are more graceful and more beautiful than comparable items from human or dwarves, but dwarven items, especially metal, are clearly better, of higher quality.
Dwarves are also a people whose time is past. The Thunder Twin event never happened, dwarven numbers keep declining. They have kept up, however, with progress in metalworking and mining, and are still the best at their craft.
Halflings are basically as they are presented, but not too common.
Gnomes are rare. There is no odd tinker gnome in every city.
One campaign is set in Mulhorand/Unther, which I modified even further. Both countries are structured after egypt, and are almost twin cultures.
Religion-wise, I remodeled the Mulhorandi pantheon and culture. There are still gods walking the palaces in Skuld. No good gods though, only neutral gods. Mulhorand is a theocratic society modeled after communist russia, with the clerics of the different temples instead of the party. Unther was a manchester-capitalistic society controlled by their godking, and fell apart after the godking died, ripe for the picking by Mulhorand. Arcane casters in Mulhorand are, due to the belief that magic is god-granted and use of it without clerical backing is heresy, and due to the long-standing conflict with the Red Wizards of Thay, persecuted and very rare. The church of Toth, however, is mainly composed of mages with a few levels of cleric, for appearance's sake. The Goddess Isis was struck by Set through a plot and her personality fragmented. Her different fragments - each a diferent aspect of her portofolio, and a shard of her mind - compete with each other. The result is a Goddess with split personalities. Good thing she can have multiple avatars.
Historically, many events have not happened yet, or will not happen at all. King Azoun still lives, and since one campaign is centered in Cormyr, he may keep on living if the party gets involved. Shade has not yet appeared, and if they appear they may have a different agenda. The elven retreat is still going on.
I am sure I forgot something, but the gist of it should be clear.
Desdichado
Hero
Desdichado
Hero
Absolutely! I put "railing" in quotes for a reason, I don't consider myself to really be railing against that opinion, I just strongly disagree with it! Other than that post (and that poster hasn't reappeared to say anything else about it) no one has disagreed with what I've said about FR, they've merely disagreed with how important it is or isn't, and how much better Kalamar actually is.Enceladus said:
Mystery Man
First Post
Fenes 2 said:
That's interesting, I've kept really low key about the ToT myself. For the most part just ignoring it completely and leaving the gods as they are currently.
I never really got into the whole elven retreat thing, elves coming back is cool with me. Plus I'm an elf fan so this plays right into what I like.
I agree with cutting down treasure, magic items and the like. Slowing down level gain is a goal of mine as well. I'm up for suggestions. I personally don't mind some of the spells you've removed but I can see how excluding them could work for you.
Thats a good idea. That would really fit well with the Dragon Coast. I've been toying with the idea of running something there.
I've hated gnomes since..well..forever!
For the most part I ignore the epic NPC's like Elminster etc, life is much easier that way. As for the big baddies they're mostly there to thwart rather than utterly destroy. One of these days I may run an epic level campaign where the players go toe to toe but thats a ways off.
Should take this to another thread....
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