Campaign Worlds: What do we need?

[InVinoVeritas]

So, I've been reading John Keay's The Spice Route: a History. It, once again, tickles my creative juices. It focuses on the spice trade across the Indian ocean and all the players in Asia, Africa, and Europe that made it so lucrative over the millennia.

I'm seeing trips to unexplored islands. I'm seeing rajas, sheiks, and a Celestial Bureaucracy. I'm seeing hidden sources for magical spell components, or even potionlike herbs that grow in the jungle. I see the seven voyages of Sinbad, the missions of Zheng He, the explorations of Marco Polo and Ibn Batuta.

I see a world governed by trade winds, by the monsoons. I can combine concepts from other past worlds I've created into an interesting whole.

But do I need to?

For my creative juices, sure. But for players I don't yet have? For everyone here, just to play with? Do we actually need another campaign world? Or is there something in a campaign world that would be new and interesting for others?

What do you think? Is there anything you are looking for in a campaign world? Would you rather not bother with one? Or would you just enjoy the chance to see something new?

 

[Nifft]

What I'm not seeing is why your "spice route" game demands a whole new campaign world. If you want to make one, by all means make one! But if all you want to do is play a travel-intensive merchant-themed game, I suspect you can add a "spice route" to almost any setting -- not Midnight or Ravenloft perhaps, but excluding those & their ilk, almost any setting.

It might be a fun exercise to detail how a "spice route" would work in various well-known published settings... and what kind of setting-specific complications the PCs would tend to run into.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

But do I need to?

For my creative juices, sure. But for players I don't yet have? For everyone here, just to play with? Do we actually need another campaign world? Or is there something in a campaign world that would be new and interesting for others?

Do it because you enjoy creating a new setting - nothing less, and nothing more. Personally, I love reading about new settings - and what you describe does sound fascinating - but then again I am a settings junkie.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Solid adventurers with some sand box style elements that can be tied together but aren't necessarily done so along with some general support books on the setting.

I'm simple that way.

If we're talking 'odd' style, I'd love to see another go at Nyambe via 4e.

 

[ssampier]

Cool! No you don't need to make a new campaign if you don't want to. That said I think it could be really cool if the trade good is the source of the campaign hook.

In the world we have trade goods, spices, silks, precious metals, etc. Those are necessary, but boring. How about a fantasy version of the spice melange in Dune? Or cinnabryl in the Red Steel campaign setting. In my own campaign world, I had a substance called ambar that powers primitive firearms.

You would have to do some game mechanics tweaking, but you could make this trade object somewhat powerful without disrupting game balance. I think it would be neat to do a pirates and sailing exploration game with conquistadors and pirates.

 

[Armadillo]

I'm seeing trips to unexplored islands. I'm seeing rajas, sheiks, and a Celestial Bureaucracy. I'm seeing hidden sources for magical spell components, or even potionlike herbs that grow in the jungle. I see the seven voyages of Sinbad, the missions of Zheng He, the explorations of Marco Polo and Ibn Batuta.

I see a world governed by trade winds, by the monsoons. I can combine concepts from other past worlds I've created into an interesting whole.

But do I need to?

Here are a couple of things to think about:

- You could do a supplement that allows for fantastical adventures in a historical context: Sinbad, Zheng He, trade between India and Rome, etc. There's a more than 1,500 year span to play with.

- Alternatively, you could build a new fantasy world that incorporates these elements and themes.

Either way, I'd love to see something like this. I can't think of an existing game that has really offered such a setting.

 

[InVinoVeritas]

Just a few quick thoughts on the spice route that interested me to the idea of a new world:

The trade in spices covered pretty much the entire Old World, from Indonesia to China to India to Arabia to Africa to Europe. This happened despite the fact that there was no central authority governing its existence, no communication system to place orders, no central marketplace, nothing to coordinate the activity. Because of their rarity, spices were often more expensive than gold--you could say that money did in fact grow on trees! Pepper, for example, would be sold by the peppercorn, and each would cost considerable coin. In such a way, spices were a pinnacle of luxury, and were a strong sign that you were rich and powerful. Furthermore, as a side effect of the lack of coordination, most people had no idea where different spices came from--and that includes most of the merchants who braved the oceans to reach the spice markets. Maps would indicate islands in all sorts of bizarre places, many Europeans thought that most of these spices came from Arabia (instead of, say, eastern Indonesia), and so on. Without knowledge of where the spice came from, plantations were rarely maintained. Nutmeg, mace, and cloves, in fact, came from only a couple of small islands near New Guinea. But only a handful of people traveled between there and Java, and it was other merchants who would travel from Java to Sri Lanka, and others from Sri Lanka to Oman, and so on. One of the reasons the Age of Exploration took off was that trade to the east was cut off between Europe and Asia.

And all this took place over thousands of years. Empires rose and fell, but the spice route remained.

Now luxuries are great and all, but as ssampier pointed out, that's boring for a fantasy world. And in fact, magic might just get in the way all together. Why brave the uncharted oceans when you can fabricate a pound of cinnamon whenever you want to? Why not just scry the location of the nutmeg tree and teleport there?

So, I thought... but what if it takes a pound of cinnamon to power a fabricate spell? What if spices are required to power magic? What if spices are, in essence, mana? Alchemy becomes incredibly interesting. Control of the spice trade becomes not only a way to economic domination, but magical and military domination. It just takes a pinch of ginger to cast a magic missile, and that is why the king holds all supplies of ginger for the kingdom. No magic missile for you. The attempt to hoard power would prevent the coordination that would allow for the simple scry/teleport/replant that would break the cycle.

Of course, there would also be magical spices that would carry a lot of power all by themselves. Yet, I see the quest to find resources a major source of adventure all by itself. Rival factions trying to reach some fabled island that may or may not be there. The trade routes are jealously guarded secrets, as they are the sources of wealth and power. Byzantine politics in bazaars. Expeditions to far-off lands.

Deep down, that's why I see that it may take a new campaign world. There needs to be ambiguity for where some of these resources come from. There needs to be a limitation on free magic. That would be different from other worlds out there.

I have to think about this some more. I like where this is going.

 

[Desdichado]

Now luxuries are great and all, but as ssampier pointed out, that's boring for a fantasy world.

I don't think so.

So, I thought... but what if it takes a pound of cinnamon to power a fabricate spell? What if spices are required to power magic? What if spices are, in essence, mana? Alchemy becomes incredibly interesting. Control of the spice trade becomes not only a way to economic domination, but magical and military domination. It just takes a pinch of ginger to cast a magic missile, and that is why the king holds all supplies of ginger for the kingdom. No magic missile for you. The attempt to hoard power would prevent the coordination that would allow for the simple scry/teleport/replant that would break the cycle.

The spice must flow, huh? This sounds a little familiar...

 

[JoeGKushner]

They used something in th Mistborn trilogy as well in terms of 'metals'.

 

[Nifft]

And all this took place over thousands of years. Empires rose and fell, but the spice route remained.

It survived the rise & fall of empires because it could not be weaponized.

Now luxuries are great and all, but as ssampier pointed out, that's boring for a fantasy world. And in fact, magic might just get in the way all together. Why brave the uncharted oceans when you can fabricate a pound of cinnamon whenever you want to? Why not just scry the location of the nutmeg tree and teleport there?

In my exciting fantasy world, people kill other people for money. Anything more interesting than that is worth pursuing. It doesn't need to change the laws of physics to be cool.

Also: ban Fabricate and nerf Scry + Teleport. You should do those anyway, Fabricate breaks settings like they were fortune cookies.

So, I thought... but what if it takes a pound of cinnamon to power a fabricate spell?

Then you end up constrained by economics: you can't ever allow a pound of cinnamon to be significantly cheaper than a one Fabricated unit of any other spice, or a Market-Mage will come along and cast Arbitrage.

What if spices are required to power magic? What if spices are, in essence, mana? (...) The attempt to hoard power would prevent the coordination that would allow for the simple scry/teleport/replant that would break the cycle.

Yep, if you have one source of magic, that source will become the backbone of a great empire -- and will never again be sold legally, or be freely available for use with food.

You could make a world where spices were never eaten, but you'll rather destroy their ... er ... flavor.

Cheers, -- N