Camping: It does a body good!

[Kordeth]

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest people look at it from a different angle. If we can accept, as I think we all can, that hit point damage does not necessarily equate to the presence of stab wounds, contusions, and other direct physical injuries, why must we assume that being at full hit points equates to being free of those injuries?

Consider the finest heroic action movie of the last 25 years, Die Hard. John McClane gets the ever-loving crap beaten out of him on several occasions, and yet he always manages to shake it off and get back into the fight. In 4E terms, he takes a "short rest," blows a few healing surges, and gets himself back up to full hit points. He's still battered all to hell and back, still suffering from cracked ribs, slashed-up feet, concussions and God knows what else, but he's such a big damn hero (and now I'm mixing metaphors) that he just refuses to let those injuries slow him down.

So yeah, that's my take on it. Heroes don't heal preternaturally fast in the D&D world. If your ranger gets knocked to 0 hp by an ogre's club that the DM describes as cracking his collarbone, your ranger still has that cracked collarbone, and it's going to take some months to properly heal. He's going to be carrying that injury for the rest of the adventure--it's there, and it hurts, and he probably really wants a good long recouperative period. But he's a hero, and that Cult of Gortholgax the Ravager isn't going to root itself out, so he mans up, soldiers on, and refuses to let that injury slow him down. Mechanically, he's at full hit points and in full fighting trim, but within the physics of the gameworld he's battered and busted up and running on pure guts.

(Obviously magical healing doesn't enter in to this--a paladin's lay on hands is magic, it can heal that broken bone in seconds--but as far as innate healing surges or healing from a martial leader, restoring hp doesn't mean wiping away actual, physical injury.)

Tangent Edit: Holy cow, it's been a long time since I used this account....

 

[mach1.9pants]

I have one question. I like the HP are totally non physical until that final blow idea. It is how I have always played DnD (although I have also played and enjoyed variant DnD based on wound and hit points). However when you get that last hit, you go unconscious, do we know what non-magical ways you can regain conciousness? And then, I suppose, rest 6 hours and your back to full capacity, is that right?
This is not a realism dig, just a question, before someone slaps me back for that. I have no problem to describe injuries that take you to 0 or less as ones that could be fatal (unconscious into brain embolism, anyone?) or not really that damaging long term (unconscious into mild concussion).

 

[Andor]

So if you have 50 hit points, and get knocked down to 25 (half hits, also known as 'bloodied' condition), the "hits" and "damage" you took that knocked you down to 25hps weren't really hits at all? Just near misses? How can a near miss make you bloodied?

You get a nose bleed from dodging. Same thing with falling. Taking 25 points of damage from a 50' fall obviously must be abstracted as involving a near miss with the ground and you're simply fatigued from applying your cartoon style air brakes....

Actually abstract hp have never, ever, made the slightest bit of sense in any edition of D&D, due to their complete failure to interact with falling, poison, touch attacks, etc etc etc. There is a large camp of gamers however who prefer to jam their fingers in their ears and scream "Nyaa Nyaa Nyaa" when this is pointed out to them. :\

 

[Kordeth]

You get a nose bleed from dodging. Same thing with falling. Taking 25 points of damage from a 50' fall obviously must be abstracted as involving a near miss with the ground and you're simply fatigued from applying your cartoon style air brakes....

Actually abstract hp have never, ever, made the slightest bit of sense in any edition of D&D, due to their complete failure to interact with falling, poison, touch attacks, etc etc etc. There is a large camp of gamers however who prefer to jam their fingers in their ears and scream "Nyaa Nyaa Nyaa" when this is pointed out to them. :\

Hit points as a model of damage break down equally poorly when you try to describe them as exclusively abstract "near-misses" until the killing blow or as discrete, individual wounds each time damage is inflicted. Hit points represent, in 4E and as they always have, a combination of the abstract and the concrete. It's up to the DM to describe hit point damage in a plausible, interesting manner. Sometimes that's "you turn the death knight's thrust at the last possible instant, the shock of the blow reverberating up your arm. Take 15 damage." Sometimes it's "you strike the cobblestones with a jarring crrack that rattles your teeth, but you manage to roll as you land to ease the worst of the impact. Take 25 damage."

Of course, for some groups, it's a far simpler "the orc hits you. Take 8."

 

[BASHMAN]

d) The heroes just cure quickly. Blows and punches in 5 minutes. Broken or missing limbs - 6 hours. Wellcome to epic, cinematic high-fantasy world.

Well I guess this leaves the 3rd party publishers to fill the niche of making a tough, gritty, low-fantasy world.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

Well I guess this leaves the 3rd party publishers to fill the niche of making a tough, gritty, low-fantasy world.

There is games like WHFRPG for that.

 

[Stone Dog]

"You're wondering how they heal and bleed, and other science facts?
Just repeat to yourself 'its just a game, I should really just relax!"

 

[Imp]

It's been modeled in every edition of D&D, prior to 4E, if by "a while to heal" you're willing to accept "days." (Speaking personally, I'm much more willing to accept "days, good as new" than "six hours, good as new." Neither is believable. One of them spits its unbelievability in your face.)

This. Not that this distinction gets much play around here. I like second wind mechanics – beats the omnipresent clergy by a mile – but heroes should get meaningfully hurt from time to time.

 

[Stone Dog]

This. Not that this distinction gets much play around here. I like second wind mechanics – beats the omnipresent clergy by a mile – but heroes should get meaningfully hurt from time to time.

I'm hoping there will be rules for persistent effects so that you can narrate damage that makes actual physical changes in a character beyond mere loss of hit points. It wouldn't be a big deal to translate grievous wounds from Black Company if you like that sort of thing.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I always viewed, serious physical harm as less a mechanical aspect of the game and more a roleplaying aspect.

I view it like this, the mechanics show the basis for your general fantasy-storyline without delving into major plot oriented points of said storyline. So it gives a way to carry the characters along without dramatic alterations.

Serious physical harm to a main character is a dramatic and plot-altering event. It is something that would mean the PCs for example spend a week holed up in a abandoned shack, deep in a monster filled forest. The Cleric or whoever is helping the wounded spends his days and nights by his bed. While the others risk their life going out into the forest to find food, water and perhaps help.

That is roleplaying and not something that can be easily mechanically done. Perhaps the closest thing is that the PC who is injured can have a daily-roll. If he rolls successfully three times he recovers, middle-ground stays the same, drops down he gets worse and must spend another roll to get back up (sorta reworking of the recovery system).

Now that is not to say mechanically players shouldn't die, of course there should be that risk. Which is then roleplayed properly, but long arduous recoveries, that fits more in the realm of roleplaying not mechanics in my book.