D&D 5E Can 5E bring the wonder and mystery back to Magic Items?

[MichaelSomething]

Don't forget to weaken/kill the magic item shops! Characters with enough gold/knowledge should be able to find stuff but 3.5 took it too far!!!

 

[jodyjohnson]

A simple paragraph in the DMG telling the DM to hold some powers for items in secret might be enough.

Or even to make it known that the DM 'can/may' assign new powers or remove powers at will during play. He might not, but fair warning for players that know it all because they hold a Staff of the Magi (DMG p134 - currently 15 charges).

I think 5e will be the 'do what works for your table' edition moreso than any other. Even if you don't actually play/buy it.

Just stick and keep the smorgasbord mindset right into the middle of the D&D mindshare.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

My views:

- Some limited quantity of magic items should be in the PHB, in order to demonstrate crafting rules. This includes basic weapon & armor enhancements, scrolls & potions, wands and perhaps a few minor wondrous items. Powers should conform to those that match spells or similar magic in the PHB.

- Most magic items, and certainly the unique, rare, and powerful, should be in the DMG. The DMG should also contain items that may be lowe level but can't be matched by magic in the player's book.

- Examples of unique items, and uniquely tailoring items, should be provided to the DM.

- Leveling or adding powers to existing magic items should be an optional rule "module".

- +X "enhanced" items should remain, but be explicitly non-magical. This is the realm of unique materials and fine smithcraft, not magic. So a +3 longsword might be so because it was crafted of meteoric iron steel by an exceptional smith, but aside from high quality and its performance enhancement is otherwise unremarkable and does not detect as magic. Meanwhile, an otherwise mundane-appearing sword that glows blue when enemies are near, or a sword with no "+X" enhancement that flames on command, or a +2 sword of undead slaying would all be magical items that detect as magic and have unique powers, the "+X" enhancement if they have one being a function of material and crafting, not the magic. "Magic" is a module added to an item, just as "enhanced" is, and they can come separate or together. (Similar to 3E's "masterwork" concept, except extend masterwork farther, and do not require all magical items to first be masterwork items.)

 

[Li Shenron]

My views:

- Some limited quantity of magic items should be in the PHB, in order to demonstrate crafting rules. This includes basic weapon & armor enhancements, scrolls & potions, wands and perhaps a few minor wondrous items. Powers should conform to those that match spells or similar magic in the PHB.

- Most magic items, and certainly the unique, rare, and powerful, should be in the DMG. The DMG should also contain items that may be lowe level but can't be matched by magic in the player's book.

- Examples of unique items, and uniquely tailoring items, should be provided to the DM.

- Leveling or adding powers to existing magic items should be an optional rule "module".

- +X "enhanced" items should remain, but be explicitly non-magical. This is the realm of unique materials and fine smithcraft, not magic. So a +3 longsword might be so because it was crafted of meteoric iron steel by an exceptional smith, but aside from high quality and its performance enhancement is otherwise unremarkable and does not detect as magic. Meanwhile, an otherwise mundane-appearing sword that glows blue when enemies are near, or a sword with no "+X" enhancement that flames on command, or a +2 sword of undead slaying would all be magical items that detect as magic and have unique powers, the "+X" enhancement if they have one being a function of material and crafting, not the magic. "Magic" is a module added to an item, just as "enhanced" is, and they can come separate or together. (Similar to 3E's "masterwork" concept, except extend masterwork farther, and do not require all magical items to first be masterwork items.)

Good ideas Olgar! But how about even scrolls and wands and weapon enhancements being made an optional modular rule?

I know this sounds extreme, but since so many gamers had issues even with scrolls being used too often...

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I think magic item crafting is easily made modular, and potentially on several levels. Scroll and potion creation could be separate modules. Add some, none, or all creation options to your campaign.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I know the common/uncommon/rare thing was not popular online, but it might be a step in the right direction.

If at launch you have a dozen or so common items of each slot (not counting higher level versions of the same item) that PCs can just make, or buy/sell.

All potions and scrolls, and other 1 time use things should be common.

then have a few uncommon items of each slot... these are items that in order to learn how to make them each one is a diffrent way, so learning to make a luck blade is diffrent then learning to make a flaming sword. These should requare special ingrediants (red dragon tougne for the flam sword...ect) every once in a while you may see one for sale, but most are found.

then have 1 or 2 rare of each slot, these are 1 of a kind items.


I imagin common items like lens of reading, and gloves of climbing ect

 

[Ajar]

I'm not too concerned about what the default is, provided that if the default is an assumed magic item progression baked into the game's monster design, then an alternative system similar to 4E's inherent bonuses/alternative rewards is presented as an equivalent option, not just an obscure sidebar somewhere.

I love inherent bonuses, because it allows me to drop pretty much whatever items I like into the game without breaking anything. I can focus more on what's cool than on what its power level is.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

My views:

- Some limited quantity of magic items should be in the PHB (snip good stuff)

In addition to what Olgar said, I think magic items should be explicitly divided between the "balanced" ones and the "unbalanced" ones. There might be a lot of correspondence on the rarity scale, but not exact.

"+1 swords" are balanced. Everyone knows about them, and whether magical or not, you can talk about them in the PHB. I'd rather they stay in the +1 to +3 range so as to avoid being necessary, but you can reasonably be expected to pick one up eventually in most games.

"Flametongue" swords are unbalanced, except for whatever limited plus they have. If you know you have a +1 flaming sword, the +1 part works just like you expect, but the flaming could vary. So these kind of properties, examples of how you might use them, ways you might vary them, are discussed in the DMG.

Also in the DMG is a discussion of the time-honored techniques telling the DM how to deal with the unbalanced equipment. It isn't owed anyone, some of it gets destroyed or stolen, etc.

Now not all "unbalanced" stuff is definitively unbalanced. (So we probably need a better term.) It just hasn't been vetted for balance--or more to the point, squashed in function so that it is balanced.

A lot of items would be like this. You can buy your bog standard potion of healing down at the local temple, and it works like everyone knows it does, albeit nothing spectacular. But there are other potions of healing out there with enhanced effects, odd side effects, etc.

For people that want no magic in the PHB, there is an option to mostly or entirely ban the PHB items. You can't find any bog standard healing potions, much less buy one. The +1 sword mechanics still tell you how that part functions, but you'll never find a sword that you know to be a straight +1 sword and nothing else. (The DM might know that all it does extra is shed light on command, but you'll have to find that out yourself.)

It gets a little trickier going the other way, giving people who want more wide open magic access to a bigger list, but I see that as a bit of a problem no matter how you slice it. It is not as if the 4E PHB had all that great of an assortment of item, anyway. So the bulk of it is going to be in another book. Given that, if you want players to pour through and adventurers' vault book and make suggestions, great. If you want them to stay out (or they don't care to look at it), also great. So the only thing the 4E side is giving up here is having a huge list of items that WotC has said can be used in formal play environments.

That's where DDI comes in. All those "unbalanced" items are rated by interested players on some kind of scale for how balanced or not they are. Any formal play can say that characters can manage their items if they want, but are limited to something rated under a certain threshold. And of course individual DMs can do the same thing if so inclined.

 

[howandwhy99]

Maybe the real trick to putting the "wonder" back in magic is balancing the fun of not-knowing with the frustration of not-knowing.

The principle I follow is: "There is never only 1 way to open a door". The alternative to this means everything stops, especially if the goal the players seek to accomplish is on the other side of the door.

So they want to find out everything a magic item can do? Can that even do that? Yes, but it will cost them. They could explore through trial and error. That takes time. They could also find a previous owner and ask them. That takes time and some negotiation. They could find a wizard and pay them to cast a high level divination spell on the item. That takes time and some serious money. How much do they want to really know what that item can do?

Now they might think it's cursed or is having some undesired effect at times, but they don't have to use it either (well, beyond some very nasty possession effects, but that's a whole other challenge).

EDIT:

Don't forget to weaken/kill the magic item shops! Characters with enough gold/knowledge should be able to find stuff but 3.5 took it too far!!!

I've learned that magic item shops are simply another monster's lair. If they own a jewelry store, they have the CR to back up the amount of property they own - even if it includes a pact with the local territory's controlling faction (i.e. the guards). Maybe the owner isn't the whole challenge, at least in terms of combat, but if you take him or her on, then expect the whole group to come out and fight.

I agree magic item shops need to stop being like towns and markets are often run: free markets where there is never a threat of loss. "I'm owed this, it's in the book for that price". CHA means something when you start to barter again. Plus, the PCs might just remember that their old wizard mentor owns and will trade for magic items too (or other stuff). And that same realization can occur with dealing with that dragon, or band of gnolls, or any intelligent item owning creatures. Killing monsters isn't the only way to get what you want.

 

[Tallifer]

I have roleplayed in a dozen systems since 1981.

The only magical items which have stuck in my memory were basically artifacts.

Fourth Edition handles artifacts extremely well. They are still wondrous, exceptional, legendary and desirous.

Regular magical items like +1 swords and jars of Keotum's ointment have always been utilitarian in every edition and in every other roleplaying game. People have got to wake up from their dreamy stupor and stop comparing apples and oranges.