Can a Barbarian/Bard inspire courage while raging?

[Trine]

This leads me to believe that a Bard can not use this while raging.

As it says "A warlord in the midst of a rage can use this ability"

Spasificly stating "A warlord" Not a Bard, Not just that it can be used while raging or that like other Bardic music can be used while raging.

Thanks.

Now Im sure you cant.

Err... It's in the description of the warlord PrC's ability, not the bard's. Why would the writer even mention bards in the warlord's ability, since the PrC is supposed to be an alternative to multi-classing as a bard.

Your proof is a little lacking, I think.

 

[LokiDR]

The fact that the warlord metions specifically that you can inpire courage through his ability while raging implicitly means you can not inspire courage with the bardic abilty. Warlord looks like a special exception to a rule that isn't printed.

 

[Sejs]

Spasificly stating "A warlord" Not a Bard, Not just that it can be used while raging or that like other Bardic music can be used while raging.

It makes specific note of the rage/inspire courage interaction because the ability to rage is a requirement to get into the PrC. There's no need in that instance to mention a bard that could also rage, because it's not the subject of what they're talking about. What they are doing is pointing out that someone who has the exact same Inspire Courage ability that a bard does (identical in all respects other than the Preform requirements), that also has the ability to rage can inspire courage while raging. I personally thought it was really nice that they made a point of making that clear in the class description itself, so it wouldn't have to be Sage Adviced or Eratta'd later on. It is not a printing of a hard-and-fast rule for a bard/barbarian, I never claimed it as such, what it does do is give precident for allowing Inspire Courage to be used while Raging.


As for...

The fact that the warlord metions specifically that you can inpire courage through his ability while raging implicitly means you can not inspire courage with the bardic abilty. Warlord looks like a special exception to a rule that isn't printed.

I fully disagree with you. If there is no rule, there is no need for an exception. I think that the warlord example lends credence to rage and inspire courage working together. As for other bardic music, personally I'd let rage work with inspire greatness also, but not the other, more soft and subtile kinds (countersong, fascinate, suggestion, inspire competance).

Rage makes you a better fighter, and with the right abilities you should be able to 'lead by example' as it were to make others fight better too. But you shouldn't be able to rage and then sing a song about how well Bill The Thief is going to pick that lock such that it'll help his chances.

Heh.

 

[Saeviomagy]

The fact that the warlord metions specifically that you can inpire courage through his ability while raging implicitly means you can not inspire courage with the bardic abilty. Warlord looks like a special exception to a rule that isn't printed.

The fact that being petrified mentions that you cannot move or take actions, while being dead mentions no such thing suggests that the only penalties you gain for being dead are the inability to regain hitpoints on your own.

Your ball.

 

[Darklone]

Summary:
- You could say, the warlord description states it specifically that you can inspire courage while raging. They wouldn't state this if it would be a general rule.
- OTOH, rules often do state obvious things, that's what rules are for.

Speak with your DM. Hints in the rule books usually lead to dead ends.

 

[Magic Rub]

I've got that battle rager quote now...


This is simply flavour text not an abillity. It however proves (again) that you can sing while enraged.

If you can sing during a rage then you can use the supernatural ability Inspire Courage.

__________

If you do not agree with that then...
__________

Question: Can you speak while in a rage?

If you can then you can chant. If you can chant then you can use Inspire Courage. Remember there is NO check for this abillity you need only to have 3 or more ranks in Preform.


melkoriii
IMO, The warlord PrC gives this ability for those who do not want to multiclass as a bard. But again it proves that it can be done, that the rage doesn't hinder the ability.

Just a reprint because I feel like beating a dead horse. (and no one responded to my question.)

 

[ForceUser]

I'm with you, Magic Rub. I have spoken with several other DMs about it, and we all agree that since inspire courage is a supernatural ability it does not require patience and concentration and thus, can be activated and maintained while raging.

 

[LokiDR]

The fact that being petrified mentions that you cannot move or take actions, while being dead mentions no such thing suggests that the only penalties you gain for being dead are the inability to regain hitpoints on your own.

Your ball.

Irrelavent. You could say that bardic perform requires some form of patience and concentration. The fact that the warlord allows you to perform a different abilty with a similar mechanic identifies the ability as different, as it is written. By the letter of the rule, the fact the warlord can do it explicitly then implicitly means the bard can not do it.

The argument in this case is pretty stupid, and definately based on weak semantics. See my first post in this thread for my opinion. There is little to loose either way, unless some one out there is building a smack based on a singing frenzied beserker.

 

[Sejs]

The fact that the warlord allows you to perform a different abilty with a similar mechanic identifies the ability as different, as it is written.

Not a different ability with a similar mechanic. The same ability with the same mechanic. The only difference is a flavor one: bard sings or chants or recites poetry or whistles or or plays an instrument, warlord give a speech. Heck a bard could easily recite the "Once more unto the breech" peice from Henry VIII to inspire courage. They arn't inherantly different abilities. I've given you a page refrence, go read it.

By the letter of the rule, the fact the warlord can do it explicitly then implicitly means the bard can not do it.

Bullpucky. The warlord ability nowhere states that while a warlord can inspire courage while raging that a bard cannot. There is no letter of the rule in this situation, only inferance and interpretation. Just please don't try to come off as though you had a more solid authority on this than you actually do.

 

[Magic Rub]

O.K. for (what I hope to be) the last time...

You CAN use supernatural abilities while in a rage. Inspire courage is a supernatural ability, therefore you can use Inspire courage while in a rage.



The proof

From the DMG & PHB;

Supernatural Abilities (Su): Supernatural abilities are magical but not spell-like...



Using a supernatural ability is usually a standard action (unless defined otherwise by the ability description) ***like in the case of the bardic Inspire courage ability***. Its use cannot be disrupted, does not require concentration , and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

(bold emphasis is mine)
***clarification mine***

Further...

From the PHB

Inspire courage

...Inspire courage is a supernatural ability...

[edit]spelling[/edit]