Can a creature hide an immunity?

[Stalker0]

Let's say that a creature is immune to dazing or something like that. A caster casts a spell with a save that dazes the creature. From the casters perspective, would it just be "guy passed his save, moving on" or would he recognize there was something else going on?

Let's take it a step further. Let's say a guy has some spell on him that makes him immune to fire, but he happens to pass his reflex save against fireball. Would the caster think he simply passed and has evasion or something, or would he recognize some kind of resistance going on?

 

[shilsen]

Let's say that a creature is immune to dazing or something like that. A caster casts a spell with a save that dazes the creature. From the casters perspective, would it just be "guy passed his save, moving on" or would he recognize there was something else going on?

If it's a targeted spell, the caster automatically knows if someone saved (see PHB pg.177). If that's not the case, you wouldn't know there was something else occurring.

Let's take it a step further. Let's say a guy has some spell on him that makes him immune to fire, but he happens to pass his reflex save against fireball. Would the caster think he simply passed and has evasion or something, or would he recognize some kind of resistance going on?

This would have to depend on the individual DM. I normally describe things in such a way that the PCs would probably work it out. The same is true for NPCs using spells on the PCs, of course.

 

[Nac_Mac_Feegle]

With a reflex save, especially with Evasion, we have always ruled if you make the save and take no damage you are moved to the edge of the are effect/spell. So if you didnt take damage from a fireball, but hadnt moved because you dont have evasion, it would be obvious. Now I am sure we started using that rule, not because its house rule, but because someone saw it written down.

I think it might be a tad unfair to not let the caster make a wisdom, intelligence or spellcraft check to sto himeself wasting his fire spells on a creature that appears to be taking no damage (or any other spell that its immune to for example)

However, I dont know if there is any real difference between knowing a creature made its save and it actually being immune and not needing one.

Feegle Out

 

[TheGogmagog]

With a reflex save, especially with Evasion, we have always ruled if you make the save and take no damage you are moved to the edge of the are effect/spell... ... Now I am sure we started using that rule, not because its house rule, but because someone saw it written down.

I think it might be a tad unfair to not let the caster make a wisdom, intelligence or spellcraft check to sto himeself wasting his fire spells on a creature that appears to be taking no damage (or any other spell that its immune to for example)

For the first part, I have only seen the 'blown to the edge of the effect' reccomended for blade barrier in 3.0. I don't recall all the details because we had a house rule to compensate for the contradictions between the rules and how 3.0 blade barrier was written.

I would allow an appropriate knowlege check (ie. knowlege planes for outsiders) to determine natural resistances. If a caster had a fire immunity from an item or spell that knowlege wouldn't make sense.

I don't think the core books clarify any of this, complete arcane might.

 

[Infiniti2000]

With a reflex save, especially with Evasion, we have always ruled if you make the save and take no damage you are moved to the edge of the are effect/spell.

This is not a good way to rule evasion. It creates two huge problems for someone with a previously decent ability. (1) Evasion suddenly can't be used in a number of situations, the most obvious being a small room, say 20ft radius against a fireball. (2) The movement could be something that you really really don't want, provoking an AoO from an opponent, or moving you into the pool of acid.

 

[Bullgrit]

we have always ruled if you make the save and take no damage you are moved to the edge of the are effect/spell.

From reading such ideas on many message boards, and in conversation with other D&D players, it seems that perhaps I'm the only person in the world who envisions the fireball spell as not a solid sphere of fire. I've always thought of it as a swirl-like blast of flames, in which, a quick and nimble (or lucky) character can dodge and twist to avoid the swirls. Or as a blast of jets of flames, like a sea urchin's quills, stabbing out from the center, in which a quick and nimble (or lucky) character can dodge and twist to avoid the stabs.

Bullgrit

 

[Len]

From reading such ideas on many message boards, and in conversation with other D&D players, it seems that perhaps I'm the only person in the world who envisions the fireball spell as not a solid sphere of fire.

You're not the only one. It's just that those of us who see it that way don't have any reason to complain about how evasion and reflex saves work.

 

[lukelightning]

Swirly is better than spiney, since the fireball is a spread that can go around corners...if it was a plain burst then spikey would be where it's at.

From reading such ideas on many message boards, and in conversation with other D&D players, it seems that perhaps I'm the only person in the world who envisions the fireball spell as not a solid sphere of fire. I've always thought of it as a swirl-like blast of flames, in which, a quick and nimble (or lucky) character can dodge and twist to avoid the swirls. Or as a blast of jets of flames, like a sea urchin's quills, stabbing out from the center, in which a quick and nimble (or lucky) character can dodge and twist to avoid the stabs.

Bullgrit

 

[werk]

From reading such ideas on many message boards, and in conversation with other D&D players, it seems that perhaps I'm the only person in the world who envisions the fireball spell as not a solid sphere of fire. I've always thought of it as a swirl-like blast of flames, in which, a quick and nimble (or lucky) character can dodge...

I know you're not the only one, but I don't see a reason to explain exactly how the mechanics works to players. "Mage throws a fireball, everyone gets burned except the rogue...he smiles." Needless to say, pushing out has a lot of problems associated with it.

BACK TO THE OP!
I'd give the caster and observers a spellcraft DC 25+spell level to determine exactly what happened...save/immune/resistance/whatever. If they are skilled enough to figure it out, they can.