Can a Druid Wildshape into a Rat Swarm?

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Just goes to show that I dont run games over 10th level very often doesn't it
I had scanned down teh descriptions and had not seen the smaller sizes mentioned.

Yeah, I never would have come up with this question if a player hadn't brought it up...

 

[Diirk]

I think that's a very questionable assumption to be making... (re: the vast majority of druids taking Natural Spell)

I don't... it lets you cast spells in wild shape... thats a huge power boost. Sure they'll be a few that don't take it, but most druid players will pick it up as soon as they can, at level 6.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I agree with Diirk. Natural Spell is a must-have for any druid.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Depends on the type of character you're playing. Feats can be quite precious, especially when you're a non-human with sights set on a prestige class that has feat pre-reqs...

 

[Storyteller01]

Or your campaign. I've banned it (you want spells as an animal, get Silent and Still spell feats!!).

 

[Diirk]

I could maybe see it for a shifter (needs alertness, endurance and emphasizes forms over spells), but warshaper has no feat requirement, nature's warrior only needs track and even daggerspell shaper just takes weapon focus(dagger) and twf (1st and 3rd feats.. leaves 6th open).

Given that spells are such a huge part of the class, if you could spend just 1 feat to ensure that you could always cast them even while in a much tougher combat form.... well, thats not something many people pass up.

Feel free to take a poll of druid players.

I agree with your premise that a druid without natural spell wouldn't be much of a threat if he could wildshape into a rat swarm, however letting a mage have a solar as a familiar would similarly be fine as long as he didn't use it, so thats not really saying much...

 

[Infiniti2000]

Or your campaign. I've banned it (you want spells as an animal, get Silent and Still spell feats!!).

Any particular reason?

 

[Diirk]

Or your campaign. I've banned it (you want spells as an animal, get Silent and Still spell feats!!).

And Eschew Material Components. You'll be casting all spells in slots 2 levels higher as well, although silence, grapples etc won't hinder you like they hinder natural spell, at least.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Druid builds

The other possible Druid not taking Natural Spell is the Mounted Combat focused Druid.
Let me tell you, a Halfing on its Companion Wolf makes a nasty combat machine.
Just not enough Feats to go around!

 

[Infiniti2000]

The other possible Druid not taking Natural Spell is the Mounted Combat focused Druid.
Let me tell you, a Halfing on its Companion Wolf makes a nasty combat machine.
Just not enough Feats to go around!

The druid IMC did exactly that, but she of course did take Natural Spell. She rides her wolf and then every once in a while dismounts, wildshapes, then casts animal growth (having already buffed up with barkskins, mass bear's, mass bull's, etc.). She's quite frightening.