D&D 3E/3.5 Can a Monk use the Improved Natural Attack feat (from the MM 3.5)

[reveal]

Why would it make you think that?

Because the passage makes a distinction between both. By saying that a monks attacks cannot be used in conjunction with natural attacks, I interpret it as saying that a monks attacks are not natural weapons.

However, I said "maybe." I still think the monk can take the feat because the unarmed attack is "treated" as if it were natural but I can understand the argument against this reasoning because of confusing passages like the one above.

 

[Scion]

Because the passage makes a distinction between both. By saying that a monks attacks cannot be used in conjunction with natural attacks, I interpret it as saying that a monks attacks are not natural weapons.

No, of course they arent. They simply 'count as' natural weapons for purposes of other things. But they are still in a seperate category than natural weapons.

Just like they arent manufactored either, but they 'count as' manufactured for certain things.

 

[seans23]

In any event, the monks weapons are 'treated' as natural weapons for effects that would improve it. Would improved natural attack improve the monk weapons? yep, then they count as natural weapons for it.

Although I follow Patryn's line of reasoning (humans don't have natural weapons, even though an unarmed strike is treated as one), let's say for a moment that monks could take this feat. I would argue that it doesn't stack with their improved unarmed damage.

At level 1, a monk's unarmed damage is 1d6. At level 4, his damage goes from 1d6 to 1d8. This is essentially improving his "natural weapon". The monk gets this enhancement again at 8,12,16, and 20. From my perspective, this is like a chain of feats, and improved natural weapon is the equivalent of the feat the monk receives at level 4. So even if I were to allow it, the benefit would only help the monk for levels 1-3.

 

[reveal]

No, of course they arent. They simply 'count as' natural weapons for purposes of other things. But they are still in a seperate category than natural weapons.

Just like they arent manufactored either, but they 'count as' manufactured for certain things.

Like I said, I can see both sides. Read my last paragraph and don't just quote the one you're arguing against: I agree with you.

 

[Scion]

Like I said, I can see both sides. Read my last paragraph and don't just quote the one you're arguing against: I agree with you.

Likely wasnt clear, I was agreeing with your point and moving with it a little further in explanation

 

[Scion]

Although I follow Patryn's line of reasoning (humans don't have natural weapons, even though an unarmed strike is treated as one), let's say for a moment that monks could take this feat. I would argue that it doesn't stack with their improved unarmed damage.

So if there was a feat that improve sneak attack from d6 to d8 you would only allow it to apply for levels 1 and 2? After all, when they hit level 3 they go to 2d6 and 2d6 is greater than d8

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Well, I know that the D&D FAQ is not looked upon very fondly here, but this passage is interesting:

Ugh. Do not bring up that particular piece of trash ... Oy. I want to find whoever wrote that particular passage and beat them over the head with a PHB, Tom & Jerry fashion!

 

[reveal]

Ugh. Do not bring up that particular piece of trash ... Oy. I want to find whoever wrote that particular passage and beat them over the head with a PHB, Tom & Jerry fashion!

Can I hold them down while you thrash about the head and shoulders??

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

What's your Grapple check?

 

[reveal]

What's your Grapple check?

Better than my Profession (Humorist) check!