Can a Sorcerer qualify for Mage of the Arcane Order

[Enforcer]

The prestige class prereqs require being able to prepare and cast arcane spells. Does this prevent a Sorcerer from taking this prestige class? Thanks!

 

[Zurai]

Sorcerors do not prepare spells, so no, they cannot qualify. I'm certain this is intentional, because the class is pretty broken for sorcerors.

 

[Mistwell]

The prestige class prereqs require being able to prepare and cast arcane spells. Does this prevent a Sorcerer from taking this prestige class? Thanks!

Yes, a sorcerer can take this Prestige Class (and the description even mentions that the order boast "almost no sorcerers" as opposed to "no sorcerers"). You need to first take the Arcane Preparation feat, from Complete Arcane page 73 (same book as this Prestige Class, which I suspect is not a coincidence). It's a good class for a sorcerer actually. It increases flexibility, but at a fair expense. Particularly in longer games that cover many days of in-game time, it balances out pretty well.

 

[Enforcer]

Weird, I didn't get any "Reply to Post" emails...

Anyways, thanks for both responses. My player will be happy to note that she can still take this class, provided she takes Arcane Preparation (which I had forgotten about--I rarely play casters myself).

Zurai, why is the class broken for sorcerers?

 

[Zurai]

Zurai, why is the class broken for sorcerers?

Because they cannot use its main feature (the Spellpool), even with Arcane Preperation. Arcane Preparation allows you to prepare spells into spell slots, but the Spellpool requires empty spell slots. So far as I know, there is no way for a sorceror to acquire empty spell slots.

Also even if you get past that somehow, it allows the sorceror to pick pure combat spells for their Known spells and use the Spellpool to be just as good as any wizard at utility spellcasting. Spend a round (which doesn't matter out of combat) to get ANY spell of the appropriate level ... there's a reason Sorcerors don't have that kind of versatility built in.

 

[Enforcer]

I think it's reasonable to say Arcane Preparation can be used to prepare empty slots, actually, so that's solved.

As for the utility, I see the concern and will watch for it. I guess we'll playtest this in my game. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Mistwell]

Because they cannot use its main feature (the Spellpool), even with Arcane Preperation. Arcane Preparation allows you to prepare spells into spell slots, but the Spellpool requires empty spell slots. So far as I know, there is no way for a sorceror to acquire empty spell slots.

Preparation is an entry requirement to the class, not a requirement for calling spells from the spellpool. It does come in to play for repaying your debt to the spell pool however, which is one of the balancing factors.

Sorcerers have unused spell slots, just as wizards do. They fill them in a different way (wizards prepare spells into those spell slots, while sorcerers spontaneously fill them). But the class doesn't require you do fill an empty but prepared spell slot (which would be just as difficult for a wizard to do as a sorcerer...since wizards don't prepare empty spell slots either - they either have empty spell slots, or they fill them by preparing a spell into an empty spell slot).

Also even if you get past that somehow, it allows the sorceror to pick pure combat spells for their Known spells and use the Spellpool to be just as good as any wizard at utility spellcasting. Spend a round (which doesn't matter out of combat) to get ANY spell of the appropriate level ... there's a reason Sorcerors don't have that kind of versatility built in.

Yes, that is the ability of the class. It has some balancing factors built in. He's right to watch it, but I don't think your belief that it's overpowered for sorcerers should motivate you to find reasons to not allow sorcerers to take the class under the RAW with the mentioned feat. If you don't like the class for sorcerers then just house rule it to not be permitted (which is not hard - just say the wizard college denies entry to sorcerers).

 

[Jack Simth]

Also even if you get past that somehow, it allows the sorceror to pick pure combat spells for their Known spells and use the Spellpool to be just as good as any wizard at utility spellcasting. Spend a round (which doesn't matter out of combat) to get ANY spell of the appropriate level ... there's a reason Sorcerors don't have that kind of versatility built in.

Once per day, or effectively so (a number of spell levels equal to one-half your caster level - generally, unless you're looking at 1st level spells, you'll be taking advantage of this once, perhaps twice, per day). Yeah - it's great for the Sorcerer - that sparkcaster gets something of the Wizard's versatility - but...

1) It doesn't last long enough for item creation (lasts 1 minute/caster level? Sorry, no crafting for you! - well, unless you're using that nifty Lucubation spell...) so you can't use it to make a wand of a spell you will use a lot.
2) It's sharply limited use. Sure, you can, at 8th, Call an Enervation... but then you can't Call Protection from Energy for that Red Dragon you'll be facing. Hope you have it on your list. Sure, you can Call a Spider Climb to get one or two people past the cliff... but how does everyone else cope?
3) Called spells generally cost double your daily resources and combat resources (those with longer casting times than one round get a break on the time doubling) - a round to Call, a round to Cast, a spell slot to receive, and a spell slot to repay.

Thus, if the Sorcerer knows just combat spells, he's still up a creek, as he can help in maybe one or two non-combat situations on a given day. Generally, he's only got "the perfect spell" once per day unless it just happens to be on his known list.

Yeah, it's very, very handy for the Sorcerer, who gets something of the Wizard's utility out of it. It's also very, very handy for the Wizard, who has an easier time getting in (both needs fewer feats and has more feats to pay for it), AND gets as much of the Sorcerer's spontaneity as the Sorcerer gets of the Wizard's utility.

And Wizards are generally considered more long-run useful to begin with.

It isn't broken for a sorcerer (relative to a Wizard) on the basis of what it can do.

 

[Quartz]

So far as I know, there is no way for a sorceror to acquire empty spell slots.

If a sorceror has insufficient CHA, then he may not be able to fill his higher level spell slots.

 

[wayne62682]

FWIW the WotC Character Optimization boards are pretty confident that a Sorcerer can take the class and make use of its features (it is/was a staple in most sorcerer builds), so while it might be dubious/cheesy, it's evidently legal.

Although take it with a grain of salt.. the CO boards are known to ignore errata and Sage Advice/Customer Service rulings when it's not beneficial to them.