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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9591208" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Well color me goddamn shocked. I've literally never heard of this "all HD on long rest" thing. That's bloody huge and yet you are, I am not kidding, the first person to ever mention it anywhere I have looked.I fundamentally disagree on the need for long rests. But at this point I'm beginning to believe we simply cannot come to an agreement on this. I look at the sphere and say it's white. You look and say it's black.Doesn't matter. It's a notorious issue that plagues the system. I've seen it happen firsthand. The only reason it didn't happen firsthand with Hussar's group was that we were all SR-based (as noted, I was a Warlock).You can insist all you like that it won't happen. It does. A lot. The designers literally introduced changes specifically to address this issue, because they knew they couldn't just force it, and their previous attempts to address it had failed.No. It isn't. I've done the math. It simply is not.Consider a mid-level party. Let's say 6th. Most classes and subclasses have their core features active by that point.Battle Masters get 4d8 dice per rest. These have a floor of +4d8 damage in total, because any other use they could be put to should be more valuable (e.g. Precision Attack with Great Weapon Master). I will ignore the possibility of crits on these dice, since you declare most maneuvers after rolling to attack and thus you know whether they get crit-boosted or not.Let's say the Champion has a 2d6 weapon, so his crits are fatter. At this level, both Fighters get 2 attacks per round and one Action Surge per rest, meaning 2 bonus attacks approximately every other combat.Per your own math, even if we take a mid-range value of 4.5 rounds (which is long, the data skews closer to 3-4, not 4-5), and the larger number of combats at 4, we still end up with only 18 rounds of combat per day. Assuming 2 short rests in that time, the BM is getting 4.5x4x3=54 bonus damage from maneuvers. The Champion? Well! 18 rounds + 3 Action surges= 42 attack rolls. One out of every 20 attacks would crit already, so that doesn't help the Champion at all. But with their features they get another...two crits on average! For the whole day! So they're getting +4d6 = 14 damage. For the whole day. As opposed to +4d8 for one rest.And that's just comparing within the Fighter class. It isn't even touching on how much a well-played caster can achieve with their 10 (up to 13 for Wizards, Land Druids, and Clerics) spells. Which, incidentally, spellcasters at this level are already getting 2-3 spells per combat, and have enough slotted spells to cast at least one every other round.So. You were saying how they would oh so quickly run out in the ways people actually play the game? That they would be horrifically inefficient? I'm not seeing it. The numbers don't add up.</blockquote>

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