Zardnaar
Legend
The old martial/caster divide. What I'm sering in real games that 5E is more team work. Casters control martials kill. For example paralyzing a foe does wonders for martial damage. Also makes shocking grasp better.
Also I'm thinking how about across all levels not just cherry picked high level games with level 12 or 13 builds that would suck in a real game espicially if you have to reach level 12 or 13+. Conjure Minor Elemental I'm looking at you.
Treantmonk made a video but kinda screwed up with his build missing the interaction hex has with scorching ray. Hex is also useful with chromatic orb, sorcererous Burst, shocking grasp etc. Generally direct damage for spellcasters is a mugs game imho. Fireball is a B tier spell overall imho situationally it's an A tier. Sometimes it's also C or D tier as well.
So we need to outperform Fireball. It's kinda hard when it's one of the best direct damage. White room theory crafting is one thing but we are going to use fireball as part of the direct damage tool box.
As previously mentioned hex+Scorching ray is useful. Conjure Minor Elemental is also useful but mostly falls into high level theory crafting. It's also not even that good until upcast in a level 5+ slot. Chromatic Orb is also useful in 2024 anyone can get it via an origin feat. Anyone can get hex via fae touched feat. For purposes of this argument we are going to build around 4 key spells. Hex, Chromatic Orb, scorching ray and Fireball (or lightning bolt).
In effect this means fiend pact warlocks, light clerics, sorcerers and wizards. Wizards may be a contender level 9 via CME. A nod to
fiend pact warlocks at level 3 due to ancient secrets and hex Scorching ray 9d6 outperform 8d6 Fireball at least to a single target. It's 12d6 at a level 3 slot vs fireballs 8d6 to multiple targets. If you have done that in BG3 you may know what I'm talking about. Hint 9d6 level 3 Paladins in toll house if you know you know. It's in the ball park at least for beating Fireball. For purposes of this thread though we are picking sorcerer. I recommend dragon or wild magic.
Also we are not comparing Fireball to chromatic orb to scoring ray. We are going to play tactically. This means we will use whatever the best option is as the situation demands. White room theory crafting you hit 65% of the time. Opponents fail a save 65% of the time. In order to beat Fireball we are cranking that up even more. Accuracy is king.
This is why we are picking sorcerer. Innate Sorcery is advantage as a bonus action. Wild magic sorcerers get Tides of Chaos both get seeking spell. Accuracy is king.
For an origin feat magic initiate cleric or Druid. Take bless or faerie fire (both if human). They're both good enough to stand on their own personally I prefer bless. Hermit and acolyte don't boost charisma pick a 2014 background outside the phb. Page 38 phb not a hoserule or ask the DM. Buff charisma to 17 level 1. Accuracy is king.
Your level 4 feat is pre selected for you. Fae Touched you're taking hex. Alternatively you could try and build around chromatic orb and be an elf and take elven accuracy. We are looking at most damage though so I would leave that feat to level 8 instead. Some DMs may not allow Xanathars material though. It's the same game though right? Otherwise human or halflings are a solid choice.
For metamagic you're probably looking at seeking spell. I like twin as well another contender is transmute spell. Chromatic Orb based empower spell is useful. By level 10 all of the above. If you're a dragon sorcerer it's seeking+transmute spell you have options. Chromatic Orb is better level 4+ spell slots so building around it can wait to level 10 exception maybe if you're a elf with Xanathars in the mix.
Otherwise its hex+Chromatic Orb (5d6 lvl 1 slot), scorching ray 3d6 per ray optional dragon sorcerer charisma to damage from level 6. Fireball or lightning bolt as the situation demands. At will sorcerous burst+hex.
How much damage is it? Well you can't really white room it. You will deal more damage than treantmonks sorcerer video and you're more accurate. Using his criteria in tier 2 the sorcerer will be A or S tier. It might not out damage everything in his builds but it's going to be better than most. It's also playable from level 1 and a lot of the CME builds are theoretical/bad in tier 1 and 2. You won't beat a martial overall but 9d6 sinhle target nova damage level 3 is a useful niche.
A wizard in tier 3 using CME+Scorching ray or a Valor bard with CME will also beat it in a white room. Other builds would be EK7/wizard 7 and other CME builds.
So this is about the best I've got for a high damage spell caster build. It's essentially tweaking Treantmonk's Scorching ray build he used by using a single feat fae touched. Depending on how cheesy fondue you want to make it elven accuracy would be anther key feat.
Magic items a bloodwell vial from tashas or wand of the warmage are both uncommon/recommended if you can buy or craft items.
Also I'm thinking how about across all levels not just cherry picked high level games with level 12 or 13 builds that would suck in a real game espicially if you have to reach level 12 or 13+. Conjure Minor Elemental I'm looking at you.
Treantmonk made a video but kinda screwed up with his build missing the interaction hex has with scorching ray. Hex is also useful with chromatic orb, sorcererous Burst, shocking grasp etc. Generally direct damage for spellcasters is a mugs game imho. Fireball is a B tier spell overall imho situationally it's an A tier. Sometimes it's also C or D tier as well.
So we need to outperform Fireball. It's kinda hard when it's one of the best direct damage. White room theory crafting is one thing but we are going to use fireball as part of the direct damage tool box.
As previously mentioned hex+Scorching ray is useful. Conjure Minor Elemental is also useful but mostly falls into high level theory crafting. It's also not even that good until upcast in a level 5+ slot. Chromatic Orb is also useful in 2024 anyone can get it via an origin feat. Anyone can get hex via fae touched feat. For purposes of this argument we are going to build around 4 key spells. Hex, Chromatic Orb, scorching ray and Fireball (or lightning bolt).
In effect this means fiend pact warlocks, light clerics, sorcerers and wizards. Wizards may be a contender level 9 via CME. A nod to
fiend pact warlocks at level 3 due to ancient secrets and hex Scorching ray 9d6 outperform 8d6 Fireball at least to a single target. It's 12d6 at a level 3 slot vs fireballs 8d6 to multiple targets. If you have done that in BG3 you may know what I'm talking about. Hint 9d6 level 3 Paladins in toll house if you know you know. It's in the ball park at least for beating Fireball. For purposes of this thread though we are picking sorcerer. I recommend dragon or wild magic.
Also we are not comparing Fireball to chromatic orb to scoring ray. We are going to play tactically. This means we will use whatever the best option is as the situation demands. White room theory crafting you hit 65% of the time. Opponents fail a save 65% of the time. In order to beat Fireball we are cranking that up even more. Accuracy is king.
This is why we are picking sorcerer. Innate Sorcery is advantage as a bonus action. Wild magic sorcerers get Tides of Chaos both get seeking spell. Accuracy is king.
For an origin feat magic initiate cleric or Druid. Take bless or faerie fire (both if human). They're both good enough to stand on their own personally I prefer bless. Hermit and acolyte don't boost charisma pick a 2014 background outside the phb. Page 38 phb not a hoserule or ask the DM. Buff charisma to 17 level 1. Accuracy is king.
Your level 4 feat is pre selected for you. Fae Touched you're taking hex. Alternatively you could try and build around chromatic orb and be an elf and take elven accuracy. We are looking at most damage though so I would leave that feat to level 8 instead. Some DMs may not allow Xanathars material though. It's the same game though right? Otherwise human or halflings are a solid choice.
For metamagic you're probably looking at seeking spell. I like twin as well another contender is transmute spell. Chromatic Orb based empower spell is useful. By level 10 all of the above. If you're a dragon sorcerer it's seeking+transmute spell you have options. Chromatic Orb is better level 4+ spell slots so building around it can wait to level 10 exception maybe if you're a elf with Xanathars in the mix.
Otherwise its hex+Chromatic Orb (5d6 lvl 1 slot), scorching ray 3d6 per ray optional dragon sorcerer charisma to damage from level 6. Fireball or lightning bolt as the situation demands. At will sorcerous burst+hex.
How much damage is it? Well you can't really white room it. You will deal more damage than treantmonks sorcerer video and you're more accurate. Using his criteria in tier 2 the sorcerer will be A or S tier. It might not out damage everything in his builds but it's going to be better than most. It's also playable from level 1 and a lot of the CME builds are theoretical/bad in tier 1 and 2. You won't beat a martial overall but 9d6 sinhle target nova damage level 3 is a useful niche.
A wizard in tier 3 using CME+Scorching ray or a Valor bard with CME will also beat it in a white room. Other builds would be EK7/wizard 7 and other CME builds.
So this is about the best I've got for a high damage spell caster build. It's essentially tweaking Treantmonk's Scorching ray build he used by using a single feat fae touched. Depending on how cheesy fondue you want to make it elven accuracy would be anther key feat.
Magic items a bloodwell vial from tashas or wand of the warmage are both uncommon/recommended if you can buy or craft items.
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