D&D (2024) Can A Spell Caster Out Damage A Martial Consistently "Archer"?

[Zardnaar]

I think a true striking rogue has a decent shot at this.

Crossbow one?

 

[Zardnaar]

Warlock using 6 lvl 5 slots and 10 rounds of EB+Agonizing Blast comes in at 32 dpr. I assumed 1 was used for hex.

Extra short rest gets it up to 58 though. Could be wrong on that bad@maff. Think I messed that up rechecking.

35 for warlock two short rest. A 3rd one via say prayer of healing 37.5. Warlocks basically out white room in a real game though potentially close enough with other options to not be embarrassing.

 

[ECMO3]

It depends on what you mean by "martial", what you mean by "caster", what you mean by "outdamage" and whether you are talking about a specific level or all levels.

Relevant questions:

1. Is a martial any character who has martial weapons proficiency or is it something else.

2. Is caster any PC that casts spells (i.e. is a Paladin a caster and also a martial?).

3. Are you talking about a specific caster or any caster and a specific martial or any martial. In another words does the strawman martial I need to propose just have to beat one caster or do they have to beat every possible caster build?

3. By "outdamage" do you mean at 20th level specifically, at another level specifically or at a number of levels from 1 to 20? In other words if a "martial" "outdamages" a "caster" at more levels than the caster outdamages that martial does that martial "win". Further no single class is the best at any specific level, so if the martial I propose is the best at 4 different levels, and no other class is the best at that many levels, but there 5 different casters that are the best at 3 levels each does that mean the martial "wins" because it is the best at 4 levels, where any specific caster is only the best at 3 levels.

 

[Zardnaar]

It depends on what you mean by "martial", what you mean by "caster", what you mean by "outdamage" and whether you are talking about a specific level or all levels.

Relevant questions:

1. Is a martial any character who has martial weapons proficiency or is it something else.

2. Is caster any PC that casts spells (i.e. is a Paladin a caster and also a martial?).

3. Are you talking about a specific caster or any caster and a specific martial or any martial. In another words does the strawman martial I need to propose just have to beat one caster or do they have to beat every possible caster build?

3. By "outdamage" do you mean at 20th level specifically, at another level specifically or at a number of levels from 1 to 20? In other words if a "martial" "outdamages" a "caster" at more levels than the caster outdamages that martial does that martial "win". Further no single class is the best at any specific level, so if the martial I propose is the best at 4 different levels, and no other class is the best at that many levels, but there 5 different casters that are the best at 3 levels each does that mean the martial "wins" because it is the best at 4 levels, where any specific caster is only the best at 3 levels.

Caster is primary caster level 9 spells and multiclass. EK10/Wizard 10 more caster.

Half casters are martials for these purposes. Can a pure caster win vs anyone else and when.

 

[Horwath]

it's 13th level, little cheese but braindead simple.

Elven fighter champion
16 rounds/4 battles/1 short rest

feats:
Gunner
Elven accuracy
Sharpshooter
piercer

Pistol(Vex) for 1d10+5
45 DPR


backup with rapier(Vex) 1d8+7
46,5 DPR

perma (super)advantage on every attack
27,1% crit chance

 

[ECMO3]

Caster is primary caster level 9 spells and multiclass. EK10/Wizard 10 more caster.

Half casters are martials for these purposes. Can a pure caster win vs anyone else and when.

Ok then, assuming you add Charisma bonus at your table I think a Warlock beats martials at level 2-6 using Pact of Blade, Green Flame Blade-Agonizing Blast, Truestrike-Agonizing Blast, and Hex, Cleave at level 4, and at levels 5-6 that plus investment of the Chain Master with an Imp familiar.

At level 5-6 using Green Flame Blade, peak damage you are looking at 1d12+strength(Greataxe)+1d6(Hex)+1d8+charisma(Fire)+1d8+charisma (secondary fire)+1d12(Cleave)+3d6+3(Imp)

So 2d12+2d8+4d6+13

You don't get both the Hex damage and the Imp damage every turn because they both eat bonus actions, but I included them both.

A multiclass based on the above, if counted as a caster will make that higher and probably extend it to a lot of levels, I like Rogue for that though and using a 1d8 finnesse weapon and pushing Charisma instead of Strength.

Part of this is the Warlock has a combination of damage types that is going to bypass a lot of different resistances.

 

[ECMO3]

I think a true striking rogue has a decent shot at this.

I think it is high at a lot of levels. It won't beat a fighter at very high levels though and I also don't think it will beat a similar Rogue build at most levels with max Charisma and a 2-level Warlock dip for Agonizing Blast.

The best weapon to go with here is a Musket which also means a feat or additional multiclass.

 

[Zardnaar]

Ok then, assuming you add Charisma bonus at your table I think a Warlock beats martials at level 2-6 using Pact of Blade, Green Flame Blade-Agonizing Blast, Truestrike-Agonizing Blast, and Hex, Cleave at level 4, and at levels 5-6 that plus investment of the Chain Master with an Imp familiar.

At level 5-6 using Green Flame Blade, peak damage you are looking at 1d12+strength(Greataxe)+1d6(Hex)+1d8+charisma(Fire)+1d8+charisma (secondary fire)+1d12(Cleave)+3d6+3(Imp)

So 2d12+2d8+4d6+13

You don't get both the Hex damage and the Imp damage every turn because they both eat bonus actions, but I included them both.

A multiclass based on the above, if counted as a caster will make that higher and probably extend it to a lot of levels, I like Rogue for that though and using a 1d8 finnesse weapon and pushing Charisma instead of Strength.

Part of this is the Warlock has a combination of damage types that is going to bypass a lot of different resistances.

Would not be surprised Warlocks peak early eg level 2.

Pact of the nothing you can have all 3 initiate feats and say alert and another origin feat at level 2.

Warlock imho wins the tier 1 spellcaster gold star imho.

I would rate them highly for a potential 1-20 run.

At level 12 it was also good.

Overall S tier class perhaps no lower than A.

Pact of chain doesn't scale well but at level 5 it's great.

There's also the conjure undead paralysis combo with Imp or quasit.

The threads also ranged though not melee. They don't get decent AC. Think you missed celestial at level 6 to add to gfb.

Also mixes 2014 material in. I'm fine with it but others may not. Opens the door for super advantage elven accuracy Sorcerers.

 

[ECMO3]

Pact of chain doesn't scale well but at level 5 it's great.

I find it scales pretty well, mostly because familiars are allowed to take the magic action. So you can give them magic items like a Wand of Fear or necklace of fireballs or an elemental gem. They can also administer potions and it does not cost you any actions for them to do any of that.

Although Imps do the most damage, I find Quasit's are generally the most useful and they are better if your Warlock gets Inspiring Leader, which gives them a bunch of temp hit points.

 

[Zardnaar]

I find it scales pretty well, mostly because familiars are allowed to take the magic action. So you can give them magic items like a Wand of Fear or necklace of fireballs or an elemental gem. They can also administer potions and it does not cost you any actions for them to do any of that.

Although Imps do the most damage, I find Quasit's are generally the most useful and they are better if your Warlock gets Inspiring Leader, which gives them a bunch of temp hit points.

Subject to finding a wand yup.