D&D (2024) The New Direct Damage Spells You Should Be Using.

[Zardnaar]

Mostly true, but there is another aspect to be considered beyond average damage - maximum damage.

What are the chances of getting 21 damage on a non-crit 2d10 firebolt? 0%. What are the chances on a Sorcerous Burst? Low, but possible . Why does that matter? If your foe has 21 hps, it matters. If you're trying to break concentration, it can matter.

When you have empowered spell to allow you to reroll selectively once you see the damage dice it can matter as well - but the math there is a bit convoluted to go into and you likely want to spend that sorcery point empowering a true spell.

D&D is a threshold game. With a small exception for bloodying a creature, the main threshold in terms of health that matters is dead (0 hps). When it comes to taking an enemy down before they take you down, sometimes very unlikely is better than impossible.

Additionally, crossing 22, 24, 26, 28, etc... raises the DC on concentration checks. If all that matters is stopping that spell, I'd rather give up a few points of damage to get that increased chance to break the spell. This really starts to matter at level 11+.

Additionally, the ability to choose damage type to avoid resistance (or capitalize upon vulnerability - awakened plants, mephits, mummies, twig blights, treants, flumphs, earth elementals, fire snakes, etc... ) matters a lot.

Also note that this cantrip damages objects. So does firebolt, but many other cantrips do not.

Finally - I believe we'll see the Hex treatment for Sorcerous Burst in this edition and see feats, subclass abilities, and magic items that interact with this cantrip to give it a boost. Honestly, when I read about it, I immediately assumed they'd be in the core books. Imagine if they add a way for you to add your Charisma to each die you roll for Sorcerous Burst - similar to the bonus we get on each die of Eldritch Blast as a Warlock - but with the potential for more due to the exploding dice? That would make Sorcerous Burst the bomb. When I heard that there was a UA with Spellfire in it, I thought this might be where that subclass would go. We may get the ability to apply certain metamagics to cantrips at 0 cost ... and an empowered Sorcerous Burst is a different story. Regardless, when and if we get these enhancements, this cantrip might be massively more powerful.

Right now, this is best as a "second damage" cantrip on a class that gets a lot of cantrips - but it could become the best cantrip in the game if we get the right magic item, feat or subclass.

Thi so much. Odds of a firebolt level 6 sorcerer doing 44 damage. 1 in 10000 on a crit.

Odds of both d8s exploding 1 in 64. On a crit 1 in 32. 3 dice exploding 1 in 256.

Odds of a firbolt dealing over 40 damage on a crit? 1 in 725.

I'm seeing sorcererous Burst explode enough that it's getting into absurd levels of damage enough to use it. Added bonus I would probably use it over firebolt without the exploding part.

It's exploding enough I'm noting some 20 and 30+ damage rolls way more than say firebolt (which needs to crit to exceed 24). 1 in 100 chance for firebolt to deal 24 damage, 1 in 25 to deal 22+ (assuming dragon sorcerers, 18 charisma).

With 5.5s inflated HP and extra point or two of danage doesn't matter. Shaving over 30 off with a cantrip happened other day with several other rolls doing over 20.

 

[jgsugden]

0.0739%

This is incorrect.

I have not done the math recently, but it tends to help people that do not trust the calculations to spell out the number sense of it by talking about the dice combinations to show work.

To get to 21, on 8,8 you only need to roll a combined 5 on the two extra dice which happens 83% of the time... that by itself accounts for about a 1.3% chance.

Then there are the opportunities to get there on 8,7,6+ (1.17%); 8,6,7+ (0.78%) ; 8,5,8 (.39%) ; 8,4,8 (0.39%); 8,3,8,2+ (0.34%), 8,2,8,3+ (0.29); 8,1,8,4 (0.24)... which adds up to just shy of 5%

Not really.
It's the exact same chance as the first time you rolled it.
And the d10 has the same chance as the first roll as well.

Except you're ignoring the word selectively ... making the decision to roll for empower when you have information about the other dice and can select whether to use them or not gives you options.

Put another way: If I case firebolt at 5th level and do not crit, empower spell will never get me to 21 damage. However, if I cast sorcerous burst and get an 8 on a die (which happens in 15/64 of cases), I can elect to use sorcerous burst to increase my odds of getting there ... with the chances of it occurring increasing if I can leave in place an 8 I already rolled.

If I roll 8,3 initially, then a 4 on the bonus dice - I get to reroll that 3 and 4 and potentially get another 8 on one of the dice, or a 7 an 6 on both dice, or ...

Last I saw there where not very many vulnerabilities in the MM.

I listed out the main ones. It is also worth noting that homebrew monsters, for many DMs, tend to have more of them - so YMMV. I have a DM that ran a frost campaign in which nearly everything was immune to cold and vulnerable to fire. I would not advocate for that approach ... but DMs do what they do.

To be clear: As a sorcerer - right now - I would take this as my second damaging cantrip. I would use it selectively for a few situations:

1.) To avoid / target resistances and immunities.
2.) If I know how many hps to target and it hits just above the damage I can do with a non-crit on my higher average damage cantrip.
3.) When breaking concentration is absolute key and I only have cantrips to use.
4.) Attacking objects if my primary cantrip doesn't damage them.
5.) Potentially range issues (vs poison spray as a primary).
6.) RP reasons (I want to deal acid or psychic damage as part of an intimidation tactic).
7.) When the potential fun of exploding dice are worth giving up the efficiency. It is just fun to roll.

In the future, I expect this cantrip will get support and see increased utility - like a MtG card that goes from trash to top tier when a future set adds the right compliment.

 

[mellored]

To get to 21, on 8,8 you only need to roll a combined 5 on the two extra dice which happens 83% of the time... that by itself accounts for about a 1.3% chance.

You are correct.
That's what I get for doing math while I walk.

If I roll 8,3 initially, then a 4 on the bonus dice - I get to reroll that 3 and 4

Fair. But you don't get to choose when that happens.

I have a DM that ran a frost campaign in which nearly everything was immune to cold and vulnerable to fire.

Which would makes firebolt even better.

 

[Zardnaar]

You are correct.
That's what I get for doing math while I walk.

Fair. But you don't get to choose when that happens.

Which would makes firebolt even better.

True but I think I would still pick sorcerous burst. It's 2 more damage on average vs SB. But if everything's vulnerable to fire those both explosions will be more useful.

I'm noting most of the time PCs over kill things often by 7 points or so. Very rarely would 1-2 hit points matter. Can't white room that.

Class features eg innate sorcery and empower spell also swing it for me. 2 points extra damage vs shave off 50% of hp or kill.

In a vacuum I pick ray of frost over firebolt for example even though firebolt does more damage.

Not fire is very appealing to me. Fire resistance is common enough to be annoying not so common enough I want to burn a feat on ignoring it.

SB scales better as well and heading into higher levels I don't want to be using fire. Real game I'm picking lightning try something new acid. I've been wanting a ranged lightning cantrip since 2015 or so. 1d8 ranged was all it needed to be.

 

[Zardnaar]

Apologies buried in text. Sell me on poison spray. Now d12 attack roll but I don't like the poison damage or short range. I do like the attack roll.

I'm not playing a poison sorcerer either.

Obe of my groups also has a dragon sorcerer/hunter ranger combo.

Wasn't the group I was referencing with Sorcererous Burst. I've seen 4 lightning sorcerers in a row hmmnn over 3 groups.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Casting hex via feat also allows you to follow it up with attack spell of your choice.

How are you getting Hex through a feat in the 2024 rules?

 

[jgsugden]

...Which would makes firebolt even better.

As you mean it, yes. In practice, there was a push to make everything fire dealing and that was ... less exciting.

 

[jgsugden]

How are you getting Hex through a feat in the 2024 rules?

I can't answer for him, but a lot of DMs are allowing 2014 legacy feats still. In one of my groups I have 5 PCs - two run 2014 builds, 2 run 2024 builds, and 1 runs a 2014 build that has selected 2024 options now ... so ... ugh.

Beyond that, he could have as easily said via multiclassing, right?

 

[Kobold Stew]

I can't answer for him, but a lot of DMs are allowing 2014 legacy feats still. In one of my groups I have 5 PCs - two run 2014 builds, 2 run 2024 builds, and 1 runs a 2014 build that has selected 2024 options now ... so ... ugh.

Which 2014 feat allows the taking of Hex? Magic Initiate did, but it has been re-written, and the rules don't allow you to take-the-version-you-want.

The 2024 Feytouched feat does let you get Hex (along with Misty Step), which might be what they're thinking.

Beyond that, he could have as easily said via multiclassing, right?

He could have, but that then begins to challenge the "damage spells you should be using" heading (which might be a joke, trying to sound like a click-baity headline).

In my view each of the five suggestions is overstated, which is unfortunate.

For example, True Strike. It's not nearly as viable for multiple builds as is suggested. I'd have said it works better on Clerics, non-Valor Bards, and Rogues than on the classes suggested. It needs the Warcaster feat in order to be effective against opportunity attacks (which isn't quite what's implied in the OP). It's fine, but not quite as robust as is suggested.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Single target damage that does nothing on a miss is nearly always the wrong choice.
Spells are usually good when dealing with masses of enemies.

Fireball being able to clear the field of a hobgoblin phalanx with a single cast no matter if they save or not (on an average roll of 28 damage) is worth a lot. Some low level monsters with only a few hp now can deal massive damage if they are not dealt with fast.

And the cherry on top. Their commander might also be softened up quite a bit.