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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9591381" data-attributes="member: 6790260">The latter. I'm not sure what I said that would be insulting, but I apologize for giving insult nonetheless.None of those things make a difference between Champion and Battle Master. You get maybe, MAYBE a couple extra attacks a day from opportunity attacks. And no, it isn't likely that the BM will do that, because as I said anything else will necessarily be BETTER than doing damage. This is a minimum floor of benefit. Not a ceiling of what might be possible.Even if it weren't, the gulf here is MASSIVE. 4d8 per short rest as opposed to 4d6 per LONG rest? Even if the BM is using half their superiority dice for things that have jack-all to do with any of that, you'd still be looking at less. And if they dual-wield to get those benefits? Yeah that's even worse, because now you're critting with fewer weapon dice!Yes, it is. Until you recognize this fact, or genuinely prove that it it is not good (which I find extremely unlikely that you could do), we cannot have a conversation.Exceedingly good. One AoE spell is worth multiple rounds of Fighter damage. And cantrips are nothing to sniff at. They are a pretty solid fraction of the baseline damage of Fighters for a significant range of levels.If you are so supremely confident that it sucks? Prove it. Do the math. I've done the math before, with 5.0. I've shown my work. Are you willing to do the same?Further, now you're trying to skewer me--yet again--by pretending that I've somehow argued that every single Wizard definitely always runs the Bladesinger Tank build or whatever else. They don't. That was merely a thought exercise to show that IF a spellcaster wants to, they absolutely can do the same kinds of things a "Big Stupid <s>Fighter</s> Barbarian" does while, with time, gaining extra spells to use on other things too. An actual, smartly-played Wizard isn't going to bother with most of that because it's far, far less efficient than many other things they could do instead.Meanwhile, you are still allowed to pick whatever subclasses you like, make arguments that depend on having specific feats or specific weapons or whatever else, and that's totally kosher? No. This "discussion" is nothing short of radically biased, where every assumption I make is an unacceptable flaw, but every assumption you make is perfectly justified and warranted and correct. That isn't acceptable.There is exactly the same magnitude of difference between 0 and 1 as there is between 1 and 2.I said "0-1". Generally, it hews closer to 1, but there will occasionally be days where the party only does two, maybe three combats, so a short rest simply isn't necessary and the casters can blow through all their spells lightning-fast. Yes, I have personally experienced this. More than once. WotC's own data supports this, that's why they tried to make changes in 5.5e. I am quite confident those changes were not anywhere near sufficient.Further, as noted, you set an absolute MINIMUM FLOOR of 2. As in, it should NEVER be less than 2. Now you are softening that dramatically, down to 1-2, maybe even just 1 some of the time. That's huge! That's cutting out a third of the resources the martials are relying on.</blockquote>

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