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Message: <blockquote data-quote="TheSword" data-source="post: 9591519" data-attributes="member: 6879661">I appreciate this because it seems to be getting pretty heated.I’m not going to bicker about which version of martial’s is superior, I’m simply saying it is more complicated than you are giving credit for. I don’t think a couple of extra attacks a day is all you get from Polearm Master, Great Weapon Master or Sentinel but I don’t think it’s worth the argument.Honestly, perhaps this is the crux of the problem. While I freely admit the top level spell may be as good as 2-3 rounds of fighter action, if the stats align, the foes are in the right position, the enemy save are unlucky etc. I just don’t believe the lower level spells are. I certainly don’t believe in normal circumstances a 1st or 2nd select spell is as good as good as 2-3 rounds of fighter actions with everything that brings. I don’t need to prove it to you because it’s my opinion.If it isn’t going to see play at the table maybe it’s not worth talking about so much. It makes the discussion even more white room than it is already and it distracts with edge case examples that are usually pretty exceptional and not very efficient.I think you’ll find when I talk about martials it very rarely involves the subclasses. There are too many to compare and I don’t think I need to start adding in all the additive differences when your earlier point about whether a spell is worth 2-3 rounds of fighter actions is really the crux of the matter. I only compared champion because I felt you’d missed an important part of a fighters action economy.I was talking in percentage terms.That’s not a problem. Some people think the problem is bigger, some people think it isn’t a problem at all. Some compromise is probably a good thing. Had long rest recovery become a thing of the past there probably wouod have been uproar. Same if 5 min short rests had been a thing.I was referring to the minimum I think it is reasonable for a player to expect in a session without annoying the DM or their compatriots. Not that no adventuring day ever passes without 2 short rests. If there is no need for short rests because there is nothing happening on a random given day then there obviously won’t be short rests. That number is based on my experiences. Where we typically have 4-5 encounters in an adventuring day and usually half of those are taxing. As a DM I have no problem allowing the party to having a short rest after a taxing combat and as a player I have no problem asking for one.</blockquote>

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