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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cap'n Kobold" data-source="post: 9657632" data-attributes="member: 6802951">I like them: They provide consistent damage over multiple encounters, they provide additional control by their presence, and they support the rest of the party by being another target and hit point pool to absorb attacks.They're also useful in comparison threads like these because the damage is easily calculable, doesn't require any discussions as to how likely catching X number of monsters in area Y is, and, like most martial damage, is long-term and consistent. The extra resilience that they grant is a good counterpoint to martials' generally higher toughness as well.Bear in mind the basis of this thread is consistent damage. We know that casters are better doing control, or support, or nova damage, or utility.But martials can't do any of those we well as most casters can. So we're comparing the martials' strong point to the casters' weak point because it is one of the only areas that martials get to compete at a similar level. It is also extremely difficult to compare utility, support, control etc. whereas damage comes in nice numerical amounts that can be compared directly against each other.Giving a personal experience isn't a tangent: You started that by (incorrectly) making claims that this was a houserule, and bring in a fallacious fallacy.Dagon's experience seems to match the majority of those who we have information on, from various polls by youtubers, this site, and comments made by D&D spokespeople. It likely does not match up with yours, but it has already been established that your experience is a little unusual, with the players tending to run roughshod over the DM more than most games I think.This thread is a necro from several months ago. I do not believe that Dagon was posing in it then, but just commented on the most recent post and the OP.The "dog pile" is is due to people correcting and explaining how and why you are wrong about the fallacy you tried to bring in, and your claims about what Dagon was saying. Even through a lot of people (myself included) don't agree with what Dagon's opinions are, we're not OK with mischaracterisation of their arguments.</blockquote>

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