frankthedm
First Post
You are right, it makes little sense. Apparently only highly magical armors can hold together the materials that makes them "masterwork" in 4E.
Can anyone explain Masterwork Armour?
- Thread starter Kzach
- Start date
In the core rules in the PHB, there is no such thing as "upgrading armor" - you never increase the enhancement bonus of an item or "reforge" it as a more powerful item. Once it's made, it's like that until it breaks.
It's an open question as to whether or not you can choose to make +6 armor out of regular plate mail as opposed to God plate, but even if you can, you don't get a price break for it. It costs just as much as godplate, and any +6 plate armor you find will be godplate.
The Adventurer's Vault adds rituals for upgrading and transfering enchantments.
It's an open question as to whether or not you can choose to make +6 armor out of regular plate mail as opposed to God plate, but even if you can, you don't get a price break for it. It costs just as much as godplate, and any +6 plate armor you find will be godplate.
The Adventurer's Vault adds rituals for upgrading and transfering enchantments.
AidyBaby
First Post
You want Masterwork armour? Just make sure you meet the minimum plus requirement depending on the type of Masterwork as required in the table.
You can have +6 plate armour. (+14 bonus)
You can have Dwarven +6 plate armour. (+14 bonus)
You can have +4 Warplate armour (+15 bonus)
You can have +6 Warplate armour (+17 bonus)
You can have +6 Godplate armour (+20 bonus)
You can't have +5 Godplate armour (min +6 bonus required)
You can't have +3 Warplate armour (min +4 bonus required)
OK?
-- AidyBaby --
You can have +6 plate armour. (+14 bonus)
You can have Dwarven +6 plate armour. (+14 bonus)
You can have +4 Warplate armour (+15 bonus)
You can have +6 Warplate armour (+17 bonus)
You can have +6 Godplate armour (+20 bonus)
You can't have +5 Godplate armour (min +6 bonus required)
You can't have +3 Warplate armour (min +4 bonus required)
OK?
-- AidyBaby --
That's...that's the point. Honestly, feel free to have plate +6 in your game. Just know that you're extremely hosing your players - they'll be paying exactly the same as plate +6 as for godplate +6.
In my games, the enchantment itself makes the material better. +3 leather improved one step upwards automatically becomes +4 feyleather. I don't see any point in allowing the trap of +6 'normal' plate and the like.
Scholar & Brutalman
First Post
I think I should point out the thread necromancy here. Posters are responding to a discussion from back in June.
On Puget Sound
First Post
Yes, I suppose you could. But no one ever does, because the cost and level of plate +6 is exactly the same as godplate +6. The gaps in the armor spectrum are there to make the game's math work across all levels, keeping heavy armor competitive with (light armor + DEX or INT increases) and keeping PC armor competitive with monsters' attack bonuses.
While there is no explicit answer that says armor does not automatically upgrade, it is clear that it does not. If it did, it would say it did. You can rationalize upgrading the 'material' of the armor if your crafter enchants a higher level version since there's no cost to it anyway.
Remember, the Adventurer's Vault adds a slew of new 'masterwork' armor types for all kinds of armor, so there isn't just one version at each 'tier' of armor anymore. Some of these new masterwork types can be obtained at 'intermediate' enhancements bonuses, +3 and +5, while others overlap and allow alternatives to Warplate and Godplate, for example.
The Digger
First Post
In PHB p212 it says "Masterwork armours only appear as magic armour and only at the highest level (16th and above).
That's OK by me. If I get a character to that level, or am starting a character at that level, and the GM says choose a Level 16 magic item I could take, say, Rimfire Plate, or Earthide armour etc.
But at what levels can you get the higher enhancement armours? e;g. Weavemail (+10) or Tarrasque Plate
That's OK by me. If I get a character to that level, or am starting a character at that level, and the GM says choose a Level 16 magic item I could take, say, Rimfire Plate, or Earthide armour etc.
But at what levels can you get the higher enhancement armours? e;g. Weavemail (+10) or Tarrasque Plate
The reason this is so confusing is that the mechanics sort of imply that masterwork enhancements are optional, but from a balance standpoint they are not. Further there is no reason whatsoever to have +6 regular plate, it costs the same as +6 godplate.
So one more summary.
Plate is +8, +3 plate is 8 + 3 = 11
At +4, plate becomes warplate. Why does it? No one knows, its just....magic. Warplate is +11. +4 warplate is 11 + 4 = 15.
Summary: Going from +3 to +4 in your armor gains you +4 to AC.
At +5, warplate is still warplate. Warplate is +11. +5 warplate is 11 + 5 = 16.
Summary: Going from +4 to +5 gains you +1 AC.
At +6, warplate becomes godplate. Godplate is +14. +6 Godplate is 14 + 6 = 20.
Summary: Going from +5 to +6 gains you +4 AC.
Just assume masterwork armor is an extra benefit to getting high level magic and leave it at that.
Now...here's the last bit of complication....Adventurer's Vault. It has new masterwork armors, and for heavy armors it now starts as early as +2. What do you do?
1) If you like the new armors, then keeping the autoupgrading method. Heavy armor gets an extra AC bump when it becomes +2. This is my preferred method, I think it helps to balance out heavy armors more.
2) Ignore the new armors, just upgrade with the phb ones.
So one more summary.
Plate is +8, +3 plate is 8 + 3 = 11
At +4, plate becomes warplate. Why does it? No one knows, its just....magic. Warplate is +11. +4 warplate is 11 + 4 = 15.
Summary: Going from +3 to +4 in your armor gains you +4 to AC.
At +5, warplate is still warplate. Warplate is +11. +5 warplate is 11 + 5 = 16.
Summary: Going from +4 to +5 gains you +1 AC.
At +6, warplate becomes godplate. Godplate is +14. +6 Godplate is 14 + 6 = 20.
Summary: Going from +5 to +6 gains you +4 AC.
Just assume masterwork armor is an extra benefit to getting high level magic and leave it at that.
Now...here's the last bit of complication....Adventurer's Vault. It has new masterwork armors, and for heavy armors it now starts as early as +2. What do you do?
1) If you like the new armors, then keeping the autoupgrading method. Heavy armor gets an extra AC bump when it becomes +2. This is my preferred method, I think it helps to balance out heavy armors more.
2) Ignore the new armors, just upgrade with the phb ones.
Well, since there isn't a "Max Enhancement Bonus" stat for the various armors, the way I read it is this:
Plate (+8 armor bonus) can have an enhancement bonus of +1 to +6, for a total bonus to AC of +9 to +14.
Warplate (+11 armor bonus) must have an enhancement bonus of +4 to +6, for a total bonus to AC of +15 to +17.
Godplate (+14 armor bonus) must have an enhancement bonus of +6, for a total bonus to AC of +20.
The materials to create plate, warplate, and godplate are very different - you don't just get warplate for upgrading your plate to a +4 bonus, you'd have to make an entire set of warplate, and then enchant it to a minimum of +4. Each masterwork armor's particular method of manufacture is in the description for the base armor type. That method is what makes it special. For example, "Feyleather armor is cured by an elven method that leaves the armor supple but tougher than normal leather. Starleather armor is infused with the raw spiritual matter of the astral Sea, making it light and strong." (PHB p. 212)
Now, a DM could of course choose how they want to deal with it. Some DMs might rule that normal plate, as part of the enchanting process, also becomes warplate. I personally wouldn't allow a player upgrading "normal plate" from +3 to +4 suddenly have the "normal plate" upgrade to warplate as well. Dwarves didn't make it originally (probably), and it certainly wasn't made with the same techniques used to make warplate (or it would've been warplate in the first place).
So, the way I see it, a suit of armor is first made (which determines it's quality) and then enchanted. Some armors must be enchanted due to the method of their manufacture.
Plate (+8 armor bonus) can have an enhancement bonus of +1 to +6, for a total bonus to AC of +9 to +14.
Warplate (+11 armor bonus) must have an enhancement bonus of +4 to +6, for a total bonus to AC of +15 to +17.
Godplate (+14 armor bonus) must have an enhancement bonus of +6, for a total bonus to AC of +20.
The materials to create plate, warplate, and godplate are very different - you don't just get warplate for upgrading your plate to a +4 bonus, you'd have to make an entire set of warplate, and then enchant it to a minimum of +4. Each masterwork armor's particular method of manufacture is in the description for the base armor type. That method is what makes it special. For example, "Feyleather armor is cured by an elven method that leaves the armor supple but tougher than normal leather. Starleather armor is infused with the raw spiritual matter of the astral Sea, making it light and strong." (PHB p. 212)
Now, a DM could of course choose how they want to deal with it. Some DMs might rule that normal plate, as part of the enchanting process, also becomes warplate. I personally wouldn't allow a player upgrading "normal plate" from +3 to +4 suddenly have the "normal plate" upgrade to warplate as well. Dwarves didn't make it originally (probably), and it certainly wasn't made with the same techniques used to make warplate (or it would've been warplate in the first place).
So, the way I see it, a suit of armor is first made (which determines it's quality) and then enchanted. Some armors must be enchanted due to the method of their manufacture.
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