Can anyone explain Masterwork Armour?

[HarbingerX]

Not to muddy the waters any more, but I'll throw my explanation in...

Plate is +8 AC, 50 gp

Magic Plate is +8 AC + Magic Enchantment bonus (+1 to +6), cost is based on Magic Item Level

Magic Warplate is +11 AC + Magic Enchantment bonus (+4 to +6), cost based on Magic Item Level

Magic Godplate is +14 AC + Magic Enchantment bonus (+6), cost based on Magic Item Level.

So:
Plate can give a bonus from +8 to +14 to AC
Warplate can give a bonus from +15 to + 17 AC
Godplate gives a bonus of +20 AC

Practically - once you get to a +4 magic bonus, expect the armor to be Warplate, because you'll be annoyed with the DM if it's just regular Plate and you lose out on the +3 AC difference for the same value. Similarly once you get to +6 and trade up for Godplate.

As an aside, the light armor wearers getting to add their DEX bonus means that they have better AC then the heavy armor wearers at Paragon level. So in the Adventurer's Vault they added additional armors:

Layered Plate (+9, min +2 magic)
Gith Plate (+10, min +3 magic)
Legion Plate (+12, min +5 magic)

So with that you have armor that gives you a +2 (or +3) each time you go up a magic bonus tier.

+8 AC - mundane Plate
+9 AC - Magic +1 Plate
+11 AC - Magic +2 Layered Plate
+13 AC - Magic +3 Gith Plate
+15 AC - Magic +4 Warplate
+17 AC - Magic +5 Legion Plate
+20 AC - Magic +6 Godplate

 

[jonshaft]

I'm of the belief that they didn't realize how bad the heavy armor users were hosed by the RAW concerning stat bonuses and that they after the fact threw in this jumbled mess to remedy the situation. I think the whole business would be easier to understand with reworking the light/heavy bonus/no bonus concept. As written heavy armor users are kinda boned. Just adding my two cents.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

I'm of the belief that they didn't realize how bad the heavy armor users were hosed by the RAW concerning stat bonuses and that they after the fact threw in this jumbled mess to remedy the situation. I think the whole business would be easier to understand with reworking the light/heavy bonus/no bonus concept. As written heavy armor users are kinda boned. Just adding my two cents.

Masterwork armor existed prior to the Adventurer's vault though, so no, it wasn't something cobbled together to fix the heavy armor issue. Now, the new armors in the AV do help to smooth out the AC curve for heavy armor so that it more closely matches the light armor users. For maximum AC though, Godplate with a Heavy Shield is in the PHB and is still the max for heavy armor.

 

[Smeelbo]

Adventurer's Vault does muddy the water somewhat, because it introduces choices for masterwork armors at various enhancement bonuses.

For example, +6 Plate could be either Tarrasque Plate Armor, AC +18, resist 5 all (AV), or Godplate Armor, AC +22 (PHB).

The existance of that choice, combined with the AV Ritual Transfer Enchantment, suggests that could have +6 Platemail that was not masterwork.

Masterwork armor is obviously a kludge to compensate for INT and DEX increasing AC for light armors.

Smeelbo

 

[Mad Hamish]

Adventurer's Vault does muddy the water somewhat, because it introduces choices for masterwork armors at various enhancement bonuses.

For example, +6 Plate could be either Tarrasque Plate Armor, AC +18, resist 5 all (AV), or Godplate Armor, AC +22 (PHB).

The existance of that choice, combined with the AV Ritual Transfer Enchantment, suggests that could have +6 Platemail that was not masterwork.
Smeelbo

I don't think there's ever been anything in the books saying that non-masterwork armour can't be enchanted up to +6, it's just that it's not really worth doing when you can get the masterwork version.

Masterwork armor is obviously a kludge to compensate for INT and DEX increasing AC for light armors.

Smeelbo

I'd call it a fix rather than a kludge but I agree with you that it is one of the main drivers.

 

[gizmo33]

To simplify things, I'd just say this (combining the Adventurer's Vault rules with the PHB rules):

Level 1 Magic Heavy Armor: +1
Level 2 Magic Heavy Armor: +3
Level 3 Magic Heavy Armor: +5
Level 4 Magic Heavy Armor: +7
Level 5 Magic Heavy Armor: +8
Level 6 Magic Heavy Armor: +12

And then just get rid of the masterwork materials as needless fluff. As someone pointed out, it would be nice to be able to boost enchant on a suit of armor to keep up with level, and I see no real balance or rules based reason that requires this needless complexity.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

To simplify things, I'd just say this (combining the Adventurer's Vault rules with the PHB rules):

Level 1 Magic Heavy Armor: +1
Level 2 Magic Heavy Armor: +3
Level 3 Magic Heavy Armor: +5
Level 4 Magic Heavy Armor: +7
Level 5 Magic Heavy Armor: +8
Level 6 Magic Heavy Armor: +12

And then just get rid of the masterwork materials as needless fluff. As someone pointed out, it would be nice to be able to boost enchant on a suit of armor to keep up with level, and I see no real balance or rules based reason that requires this needless complexity.

Well, for the "normal" Masterwork armors, that's essentially how they work. The extra stuff the AV added was just some additional effects with a tradeoff of a lower AC compared to "normal" Masterwork armor of that level. ie- Godplate vs Tarrasque.

I don't see any need to actually eliminate the new armor types, however it might help players and DM's alike to try and combine the tables into a single table for easier reading.

 

[gizmo33]

I don't see any need to actually eliminate the new armor types, however it might help players and DM's alike to try and combine the tables into a single table for easier reading.

Yea, the "trade-off" armors aside, the basic masterwork armors means having to memorize a bunch of terms to know what you're dealing with. Before the "trade-off" armors, you could at least extrapolate - a +4 heavy armor would have the +3 for the masterwork (because I've memorized that +4/+5 get the "one tier" +3 bonus, while +6 gets the "two tier" +6 bonus), and with some thought (too much IMO) you could come to the conclusion that the armor was +7 over it's basic type. I'd rather just say Armor +7 and not deal with the materials that are just masking further bonuses.

Then if you want the special "trade-off" armors, you can say, for example, Spectre Plate Armor +6. The "spectre" tells me that I get the damage resistance, and the "+6" part lets me know instantly what my AC is by having to add up two numbers, rather than three numbers, one of which I have to go to the book for just to be sure.

 

[CapnZapp]

I just don't grok it.

Take Warplate for instance. It's +11 AC and has a +4 minimum enhancement bonus.

What does that actually mean?

How does it actually come into play?

Does it simply mean it has to have a minimum +4 magic item bonus making the total AC bonus from the item +15?

If so, does that mean it can be combined with item powers?

For instance, Dwarven Warplate +4.

If that's the case, how do you determine total cost and value?

It's all very confusing and by no means clearly spelled out.

I agree. WotC failed to introduce this rule in a clear way.

I have sorted it all out here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan-creations-house-rules/248294-masterwork-armor-sorted-out.html

Read it if you'd like an alternative introduction to masterwork armor and how it works!

 

[jgsugden]

I really wish they'd do a clarifying article on armor, but until they do, this is the way I run masterwork armor into my game based upon the wording in the books:

1.) PHB, Pg 212: "Certain kinds of armor are made according to arcane and esoteric methods that involve weaving magic into the substance of the armor."

According to this language, the masterwork nature is included in the armor when the masterwork armor is made.

2.) PHB, Pg 212: "These masterwork armors never appear except as magic armor (see page 227), and even then only at the highest levels (16th level and above)."

This statement says that masterwork does not appear below the minimum level listed for the masterowrk bonus, but it does not say that the armor appearing as 16th level or above armor MUST be masterwork armor. Balance issues push us towards that conclusion, but the absolute game rules do not as they are written.

Although this book lists a minimum level for the armors of 16, the AV seems to expand that by having masterowrk armors of +2 or +3 minimum enhancement bonus instead of +4 - meaning that masterwork armors can be found on level 7 and above items.

3.) PHB, Pg 212 "The cost of masterwork armor is included in the cost of the magic armor."

Although you're paying for the masterwork aspect when you pay for magic armor, you do not necessarily get the masterwork aspect. It is something optional.

4.) AV I, Pg 6 "For example, +4 crysteel mail armor costs 45,000 gp - the same as nonmasterwork +4 chain armor."

This reinforces that all armor of +4 or above does not need to be mastework.

5.) AV I, Pg 6 "Thus, an adventurer of higher level is generally better off shopping for masterwork armors than the armors he or she used at lower levels."

This also reinforces that you can have the masterwork aspect made into armor, but does nothing to indicate that non-masterwork armors can be upgraded into masterwork armors.

--------

When I add all of this up, I get the following answers to my armor questions:

1.) When armor is found, it *may* possess any masterwork properties, at the DM's discretion, suitable for the enhancement bonus of the armor. For balance reasons, DMs are generally better off selecting masterwork properties equaling the enhancement bonus of the armor. This also makes sense from an RPG perspective as the person making the armor can 'max out' the benefits of the armor for no additional cost by selecting the best masterwork options available.

2.) When armor is made, it may possess any masterwork properties suitable for the enhancement bonus of the armor, at the discretion of the creator.

3.) When the Transfer Enchantment ritual (AV I, pg 199) is used to transfer enchantments, it does nothing to change the type of armor. If you move a +6 enchantment to a suit of normal platemail, you have +6 normal platemail.

4.) There are no rules that allow the Transfer Enchantment ritual to move lower level enhancements to equal or higher level armor.

5.) If I find a suit of level 24 +5 Soulwarding Chainmail, and I want to use Move Enchantment to put it on plate, I'd need to provide the armor to move it onto. The best option would be a suit of legion plate armor, as the soulwarding chainmail is +5 and the legion plate is minimum enhancement +5 and is better than all of the minimum enhancement +4 (or below) armors. I can either provide legion plate armor of level 21 to 23 that I have found, have a suit of legion armor made (which will cost me 225,000), or settle on having that +5 transfered to a lesser suit of armor.

In my games, all armor of +2 or above is masterwork unless I have a dang good reason to make it non-masterwork.

One situation that could occur that would result in enhancement bonuses being placed on items with lower minimum enhancement bonuses would involve armor that was previously captured. Let's say that a brave knight in powerful level 26 +6 magic godplate armor died in a dungeon. An evil ritual using creature took the armor and decided to transfer the enhancement to the armor of his chief assassin, a githyanki gish wearing normal chainmail armor. That armor would increase to +6 bonus, but would not become masterwork.