Can anyone explain Masterwork Armour?

[CapnZapp]

3.) When the Transfer Enchantment ritual (AV I, pg 199) is used to transfer enchantments, it does nothing to change the type of armor. If you move a +6 enchantment to a suit of normal platemail, you have +6 normal platemail.

4.) There are no rules that allow the Transfer Enchantment ritual to move lower level enhancements to equal or higher level armor.

Yeah, and this sucks.

Okay, so armor needs a push for the math to come out right.

Why did they then come up with a solution that makes Transfer Enchantment suck big time for high-end armor, when it's perfectly fine for everything else.

And why did they then bury the information, as well as rip out one third of them masterworks to publish it in another book (AV)?



Not saying any of this is your fault, jdsugden.

 

[Trevelyan]

I personally wouldn't allow a player upgrading "normal plate" from +3 to +4 suddenly have the "normal plate" upgrade to warplate as well. Dwarves didn't make it originally (probably), and it certainly wasn't made with the same techniques used to make warplate (or it would've been warplate in the first place).

Seriously? Have you not read the thread? Whatever the in game rationale might be, the key driver is that the masterwork bonuses are a balancing factor between light and heavy armours.

 

[Seule]

Obviously, from this thread, masterwork armor compensates for the stat bonuses that you aren't getting to AC. In addition, however, it also compensates for the difference in effectiveness between bonuses to weapons and armor. A +1 to a weapon gives +1 to hit and damage, a +1 to armor gives just a +1 to AC, and for the same cost. Thus, masterwork basically lets armor scale up when enchanted faster than just +1 AC per +1 bonus.

--Penn

 

[CapnZapp]

Seriously? Have you not read the thread? Whatever the in game rationale might be, the key driver is that the masterwork bonuses are a balancing factor between light and heavy armours.

Yes, but it would still be vastly better if WotC came up with a solution to the math issue that didn't frikkin' required stuff to change properties out of thin air, specifically with no magic involved! Right?

Just because fluff shouldn't take precedence to crunch doesn't mean you were right to give your customers a kick in the face just because they don't buy just any WTF moment in their game...

My point is that this could have been handled so much better. For instance, like the suggestion where ancestral weaponry "grows" on you, revealing increasingly powerful abilities as you level up.

 

[pwnedd]

It seems like everyone pretty much agrees that the higher level magic armors (+4, +5, etc) should all be masterwork.

What about lower level (+2, +3) ones?

For instance, the character builder seems to automatically adjust the base AC bonus for a +2 plate armor from 8 to 9, as if it were the lowest type of MW armor. Should I just stick with that and assume Masterwork is used for all armors with a bonus of +2 or higher?

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

For instance, the character builder seems to automatically adjust the base AC bonus for a +2 plate armor from 8 to 9, as if it were the lowest type of MW armor. Should I just stick with that and assume Masterwork is used for all armors with a bonus of +2 or higher?

Yeah, I'd assume that any armor that qualifies for a masterwork material automatically is constructed with it. The Masterwork materials costs no extra gold at all. Creating a +2 armor without Masterwork is really just created a sub-standard armor with too low an AC.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

It seems like everyone pretty much agrees that the higher level magic armors (+4, +5, etc) should all be masterwork.

What about lower level (+2, +3) ones?

For instance, the character builder seems to automatically adjust the base AC bonus for a +2 plate armor from 8 to 9, as if it were the lowest type of MW armor. Should I just stick with that and assume Masterwork is used for all armors with a bonus of +2 or higher?

Yep, all armors that have sufficient enhancement bonus ARE masterwork. Unfortunately PHB didn't really make that entirely clear. Technically non-masterwork higher enhancement armors aren't forbidden but they are entirely pointless. With the new rarity system perhaps you can make a distinction like players can make non-masterwork versions only or something unless they have access to "special processes" that effectively make all masterwork armor uncommon or rare. I don't see anything in Essentials that really clarifies this though.

 

[DracoSuave]

Or... most recent printing in a book about how armor works should apply.

'masterwork armor types' have been simplified to a nice little table that simply increases the armor bonus for armor as it gains enhancement bonuses.

It doesn't try to give each a seperate name, it just goes 'here's your armor bonuses, don't over think it.'

Ah simplicity.

 

[greghacker]

Or... most recent printing in a book about how armor works should apply.

'masterwork armor types' have been simplified to a nice little table that simply increases the armor bonus for armor as it gains enhancement bonuses.

It doesn't try to give each a seperate name, it just goes 'here's your armor bonuses, don't over think it.'

Ah simplicity.

Yes, it was printed so in Heroes of the Fallen Lands.
Now the bonus to AC from "masterwork" armor is built in the normal magic armor.
So if you follow the table in HotFL if you have, say, a Magic Hide Armor at level 21-25 it lists the Enhancement Bonus as +5, the Bonus to AC as +4 and the total bonus to AC as +9. There is no reference of any "masterwork" armor. Instead it is hard-coded as the Enhancements rise.
What grieves me is that masterwork armors are not only a higher bonus to AC. They offer bonus to some NADs or damage resistance.
What players get in Essentials caters to AC only. Pity.

What is also sad is that in the CB it is very easy and possible to actually get a non-masterwork armor if you misclick. You choose the simple, magic armor of your choice without noticing the weird names below them, scroll down in levels and you get your armor +6 but without the masterwork bonuses.

Someone new to the CB or in a hurry, could get shafted like this.

 

[RLBURNSIDE]

it was a mistake

to make masterwork optional and with "wierd materials". Nobody asks the rogue to go study with some esoteric master-thief in order to boost his Dex from 21 to 22, do they.It just happens.

Some DMs read the fluff section like in the +3 psionic hardnened plate and scoff, and say no way, not realizing the defender in plate now has worse AC than the rogue.

It really sucks spending all these feats and money on armor and having to sell it at 1/5th the price when you just want to upgrade it from +2 to +3 but can't because there is no transfer enchantment or enchant magic item that can transfer from a weaker masterwork material to a better one. I.e., heavy armor users are hosed, unless you have a very cooperative DM. If you're in the middle of a dungeon, even with someone in the party who can cast those rituals, there's no way you can get access to the next better masterwork AC until you get back to town, and even then! you cannot salvage the value of your old armor in the upgrade, since it is now vendor or disenchant fodder.

Transferring enchantments should apply to upgrading masterwork materials without extra cost. Chosing between losing 1/5th the value of your armor each upgrade is a huge deal.

At 18th level you shouldn't be getting a +3 AC boost for free, you should be going up +2 only since you SHOULD already have masterwork, in order to balance with light armor wearers, who already have less penalties to skill checks, speed, flying, all sorts of things.